Christians worship Christ; JW's do not!

Apple7

Apple7

New member
TrevorL said:
Greetings again Apple7,

The same word that you translate “originator” is translated as “author” in the following:
Hebrews 12:1–2 (KJV): 1 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us, 2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.
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Now...you have abandoned your Psalm 110 polemic, and have moved onto Hebrews 12.

Hebrews 12 concludes the FAITH examples set forth in Hebrews 11, of which, are each from the OT, and are Triune examples...and then declares that Jesus is the originator (or 'author' according to you) of these very examples.

This, then, further proves my point of Jesus' divinity and The Trinity.

You just keep getting yourself in deeper and deeper, Trev....






TrevorL said:
The Gospels reveal Jesus and his faith, and how he endured trial even unto crucifixion, death and this resulted in his resurrection. If we look unto Jesus in faith and are thus motivated to follow his example we will partake of the life that is offered in our Lord Jesus Christ.
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Scripture defines 'faith' as 'acting upon established Truth', of which, is Jesus Christ.






TrevorL said:
Hebrews 12:1-2 is also important as it is also based on Psalm 110:1. Hebrews 12:1-2 is also based on Psalm 16, and it is interesting that Psalm 110:1 and Psalm 16:8-11 are also combined in Peter’s speech in Acts 2.
Psalm 16:8–11 (KJV): 8 I have set the LORD always before me: because he is at my right hand, I shall not be moved. 9 Therefore my heart is glad, and my glory rejoiceth: my flesh also shall rest in hope. 10 For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption. 11 Thou wilt shew me the path of life: in thy presence is fulness of joy; at thy right hand there are pleasures for evermore.
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And...?

Fact is, Psalm 110.1 is referenced in numerous places in the NT, and none, of which, promotes your position, as thus...


• Mat 22.41 – 46; 26.64
• Mark 12.35 – 37; 14.62
• Luke 20.41 – 44; 22.69 - 70
• Acts 2.32 – 36
• 1 Cor 15.25
• Eph 1.20
• Col 3.1
• Heb 1.3, 13; 8.1; 10.12 – 13; 12.2




TrevorL said:
The “life” that is referred to is the life that has been brought to light through the gospel:
2 Timothy 1:9–10 (KJV): 9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began, 10 But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:

You seem to have trouble with what it plainly says in Psalm 110:1-2 where there is one Yahweh. You are confused between Jesus and the Holy Spirit in Psalm 110:1, and here again are confused, and my only conclusion is that you are desperate to force the Trinity into a Psalm where it is clearly teaching that there is one God, Yahweh, God the Father and that our Lord Jesus Christ is the Son of God. Acts 3:19-21 shows that it is God the Father that sends Jesus back to the earth.

Kind regards
Trevor
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Psalm 110 changes from First-Person to Third-Person in the dialogue of Yahweh.

Thus....the only logical conclusion that one can arrive at is that Yahweh is more than one Person.

Hence, we have The Trinity:

3 Persons; 1 Being.


Deal with it, Trev....
 
Apple7

Apple7

New member
keypurr said:
Lot "worshiped" the two strangers who looked like normal travelers as they entered
Sodom (Gen. 19:1).

Abraham "worshipped" the Gentile leaders of the land where he lived (Gen. 23:7).

Jacob "worshipped" his older brother Esau (Gen. 33:3).

Joseph's brothers "worshipped" him (Gen. 43:26).

Ruth "worshipped" Boaz (Ruth 2:10).

David "worshipped" Jonathan (1 Sam. 20:41).

David "worshipped" King Saul (1 Sam. 24:8).

Mephibosheth fell on his face and "worshipped" David (2 Sam. 9:6).

Abigail "worshipped" David the outlaw (1 Sam 25:23, 41).

The whole congregation "worshipped" the King (1 Chron. 9:20).
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How many of those were given a burnt offering?
 
Apple7

Apple7

New member
oatmeal said:
Since scripture does not teach it, why should I believe your opinions?

Your opinions do not trump God's word.

What is the answer to the multiple choice question I posited?

What does I Timothy 2:5 say?

If you believed that verse, you would agree with me.
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Who is God?

Who is Savior?


Titus 2.13

προσδεχομενοι την μακαριαν ελπιδα και επιφανειαν της δοξης του μεγαλου θεου και σωτηρος ημων χριστου ιησου

prosdechomenoi tēn makarian elpida kai epiphaneian tēs doxēs tou megalou theou kai sōtēros hēmōn christou iēsou

Looking for the blessed hope and appearance of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ,





2 Peter 1.1

σιμων πετρος δουλος και αποστολος ιησου χριστου τοις ισοτιμον ημιν λαχουσιν πιστιν εν δικαιοσυνη του θεου ημων και σωτηρος ιησου χριστου

simōn petros doulos kai apostolos iēsou christou tois isotimon hēmin lachousin pisten en dikaiosunē tou theou hēmōn kai sōtēros iēsou christou

Simon Peter, a slave and apostle of Jesus Christ, to those equally precious with us, having obtained faith in the righteousness of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ:


Greek grammar mandates that Jesus is both God and Savior in the above verses.

Jesus is the God-man.

Jesus is the Savior-man.

Thus, when we come to your example, we can easily see that God and Savior both apply to Jesus.

Further, ‘Truth’ also applies to Jesus.

Your example establishes that Jesus is both God and man.

He is the God-man, as thus…

1 Tim 2.3 - 5

For this is good and acceptable before God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved and to come to a full knowledge of Truth. For God is one, also there is one Mediator of God and of men, the Man Christ Jesus,
 
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popsthebuilder

New member
Apple7 said:
Who is God?

Who is Savior?


Titus 2.13

προσδεχομενοι την μακαριαν ελπιδα και επιφανειαν της δοξης του μεγαλου θεου και σωτηρος ημων χριστου ιησου

prosdechomenoi tēn makarian elpida kai epiphaneian tēs doxēs tou megalou theou kai sōtēros hēmōn christou iēsou

Looking for the blessed hope and appearance of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ,





2 Peter 1.1

σιμων πετρος δουλος και αποστολος ιησου χριστου τοις ισοτιμον ημιν λαχουσιν πιστιν εν δικαιοσυνη του θεου ημων και σωτηρος ιησου χριστου

simōn petros doulos kai apostolos iēsou christou tois isotimon hēmin lachousin pisten en dikaiosunē tou theou hēmōn kai sōtēros iēsou christou

Simon Peter, a slave and apostle of Jesus Christ, to those equally precious with us, having obtained faith in the righteousness of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ:


Greek grammar mandates that Jesus is both God and Savior in the above verses.

Jesus is the God-man.

Jesus is the Savior-man.

Thus, when we come to your example, we can easily see that God and Savior both apply to Jesus.

Further, ‘Truth’ also applies to Jesus.

Your example establishes that Jesus is both God and man.

He is the God-man, as thus…

1 Tim 2.3 - 5

For this is good and acceptable before God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved and to come to a full knowledge of Truth. For God is one, also there is one Mediator of God and of men, the Man Christ Jesus,
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Can you show GODman from scripture please? It seems very contrary to the multiple verses expressly telling us to not worship man.

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Apple7

Apple7

New member
oatmeal said:
Jesus Christ is referred to as the son of God

Not once is he referred to as "God the Son"

Therefore should I believe that Jesus is the "son of God" or "God the Son"

If you think that they mean the same thing, then you need a refresher course in English grammar.
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How many years are you going to keep peddling this same tripe?

There is no difference in the left/right juxtaposing any of these English words.

Learn your scripture...
 
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popsthebuilder

New member
Apple7 said:
How many years are you going to keep peddling this same tripe?

There is no difference in the left/right juxtaposing any of these English words.

Learn your scripture...
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So Mary is the mother of GOD to you then.


That should be cause for concern.

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popsthebuilder

New member
That isn't what I asked you.

If Jesus is GOD almighty and he was born of Mary then that would make her the mother of GOD almighty.

It is amazing the hoops some people will jump through to avoid logic.
Apple7 said:
Jesus referred to Mary as 'woman'.....NOT His mother.

Study up...
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popsthebuilder

New member
Apple7 said:
You posted English Trinitarian renderings!
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I posted english. You are adding the trinitarian part.....or maybe you would like to show it to me.

I won't hold my breath; you still haven't managed to give a simple post number.

What a joke

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keypurr

keypurr

Well-known member
Grosnick Marowbe said:
I'm very sensitive when I see an 'Old Codger,' such as yourself, living all these years (You're 84?) and yet remaining in ignorance and denial.
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I'm not an "Old Codger" yet as I am only 82. But I have forgotten more than you will ever know for your stuck in the rut of tradition.
 
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