No, not really.
Christian Man Asks Thirteen Gay Bakeries To Bake Him Pro-Traditional Marriage Cake
- Thread starter Nathon Detroit
- Start date
No, not really.
Actually its a matter of getting it settled in the law, it cant be unfair one way but not the other on the same overall issue.
Exactly ... IF it's illegal to discriminate, then those bakery owners who refused to bake the pro-traditional marriage cake should be held to the same standards as those refusing to bake a gay wedding cake.
My preference is that people just grow up and find a baker who will serve them whatever their little heart desires.
I agree completely :thumb:
Me too!
TracerBullet
New member
except it isn't a double standard. on the one hand a marrying couple wants a traditional symbol of compliment and family on the other hand is a guy who wants statements of hate printed on a cake.
TracerBullet
New member
I wonder how many Christian bakers would refuse to bake cakes with hate slogans on them.
I hate to be so blunt, but today's Christianity (and Islam) tends to be bigoted, patriarchal, other-worldly and elite--far from where Jesus of Nazareth was.
That's why there are so many atheists, agnostics, humanists, those who identify as "spiritual, not religious," etc. It is a bitter irony for me that most of the people I see today that are trying to realize God's Kingdom On Earth (as it is in heaven) are not that many Christians these days, but are people who have had it with organized religion and are being very public about their criticisms.
Most believers, I have found, are unable to understand the criticism and have not even learned to respond to it in a reasonable, adult way.
We have much violence in the world today and I am convinced it is passed on through the generations by people who have never learned to deal with their own suffering (from spanking to insults, etc.) in an adult way.
We tend to treat others the way we ourselves were treated and unless we become conscious and feeling about those early negative experiences we have no conception of how our learned behavior is passed on to others.
I was sexually abused and yelled at but they always taught me to be as kind as I could to others, to learn how to value and take criticism, and to listen to people when they are in pain and don't want to be treated badly. So as soon as I learned that--if I was being hurtful or unkind to others--to simply respect them and stop what I was doing.
We all have good intentions but we are not always able to express those good intentions in "good" ways.
I remember this legislator who yelled out "You Lie" to the president during one of his State of the Union speeches. He was finally forced to apologize for his disrespect and he said "Well, I let my emotions get the better of me."
Exactly. Obviously his parents never taught him how to recognize and feel his strong emotions and to express them in an adult manner.
This is so important for everyone to learn--otherwise we might as well say "goodbye" to collaborative problem-solving and conflict resolution.
We have become a country of whiners and losers. And I only know this because I have a whiner and a loser within myself and am all-too-familiar with those feelings so I can easily recognize those feelings in myself.
I am the pot calling the kettle black but if I am accountable I have to admit that as a "pot" I am just as black as the kettles I criticize.
When we are attacked (as homos surely feel from the church) we get defensive and angry. I think this is where these guys are at now, so their decision to make a certain kind of cake is an attempt to "get back" at those of us who are happy and heterosexual.
But this is only my opinion and I am always willing to be accountable for my own wrong-headedness. So I could very easily be way off base here.
Thanks for letting me preach a bit!
shagster01
New member
Except they are asking them to make a cake that supports discrimination. So the "fighting discrimination" stance is a little tricky here.
I agree with this.
Forcing a christian to go against their own beliefs is religious discrimination. Its the same thing in reverse.
shagster01
New member
Exactly. You said it... "The same thing."
Which is why I called both sides stupid.
You can call it stupid all day, but its costing loads of christians their business and lots of money - its high time that slices the other way and it either ends (like it should and those who dont like a business model shop somewhere else) or the gay side needs to be hit with some fines and business loss for religious discrimination.
And guess what, only one of them is protected by the constitution and its not the gay side, so this issue needs to be forced to the supreme court.
Hate would be a message stating "I hope all gays implode and die". That isn't the message they asked for.
Let's quit playing games here and just admit that there is a huge amount of satisfaction that some people seek when they knowingly target a business who does not support their POV/religion/agenda, etc.
The Christian man had a point to make and he made it very well. Serving the public isn't so important when it's a customer one disagrees with or hates.
We all know it was a set up ... and guess what. It worked. Those refusing to bake this man's cake have a huge red "H" on their foreheads.
jeremysdemo
New member
hmm..I always get in trouble when I jump into political/religious debates here...taking a chance out on that limb...lol
and I thought they would have taken the high road, being on the other end of discrimination and all.
But this challenge was unfair to me, they should have just asked the bakers to make a heterosexual wedding cake, afterall that's all the gays were asking.
the gays were not asking them to write on the cake "support gay marriage" just two same characters on the top.
I think they took it too far by asking them to write something specifically like that, it's uncouth and uncalled for and no one in their right mind would want a cake with writing on it like that at their wedding to begin with.
What does Peter say to his followers? live such good lives among the pagans when they slander you as practicers of evil, they may see your good actions and glorify God on the day he visits or something to that effect.
this just reeks of sensationalism and over the top stunts IMHO, could have been done much better and point still proven.
If it were me I would have just asked the gays to put a cymbal of my faith on the cake and went from there, a cross, dove, fish, anything would have done should they have refused or had issue with the faith itself.
hopefully I will still be around tomorrow to respond...ducks and runs for cover.
and I thought they would have taken the high road, being on the other end of discrimination and all.
But this challenge was unfair to me, they should have just asked the bakers to make a heterosexual wedding cake, afterall that's all the gays were asking.
the gays were not asking them to write on the cake "support gay marriage" just two same characters on the top.
I think they took it too far by asking them to write something specifically like that, it's uncouth and uncalled for and no one in their right mind would want a cake with writing on it like that at their wedding to begin with.
What does Peter say to his followers? live such good lives among the pagans when they slander you as practicers of evil, they may see your good actions and glorify God on the day he visits or something to that effect.
this just reeks of sensationalism and over the top stunts IMHO, could have been done much better and point still proven.
If it were me I would have just asked the gays to put a cymbal of my faith on the cake and went from there, a cross, dove, fish, anything would have done should they have refused or had issue with the faith itself.
hopefully I will still be around tomorrow to respond...ducks and runs for cover.
Gays have forced christian tshirt and logo makers to create tshirts that support gay pride events and got their tails sued off and the gays won after the tshirt and print shops refused.
They openly admit they target christian business on purpose to "force equality" so if its really that they are after, then they need to be on the other end of those kinds of suits and be forced to support that which THEY do not agree with, or this nonsense needs to end.
So, for instance, if a KKK member asked for a cake with...well, the sort of message you might expect the KKK would ask for, would you say that they can't discriminate?
As far as I'm aware, there isn't a single case of a Christian-owned bakery being fined or sued or otherwise punished for failing to make a cake with any given pro-gay message, or anything even so much as representing that it would have been for a gay wedding. What's happened so far is that a gay couple asked for a cake for their wedding, and they were turned away before any discussion of the actual content of the cake, ergo, they were refused service because it would be used in a gay wedding, not because of any message that might have been a part of the cake.
https://www.aclu.org/sites/default/files/assets/initial_decision_case_no._cr_2013-0008.pdf
There is a legitimate right to free expression that must be respected, even sometimes in preference to civil rights. However, unlike the case in the OP, the wedding cake incident in Colorado was not such a situation.
I'm generally in favor of a pretty broad interpretation of civil rights. I just don't like false equivalencies, which this thread is setting up.
False, Christians have a constitutional right to follow their religion.
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.
Can you show me the gay law in the constitution that overrides freedom of religion and speech?
Jose Fly
New member
Exactly. If you really want to compare like to like, then it would be...
A black couple is refused a wedding cake because the owner is a racist. He is fined by the city for discriminatory business practices.
A KKK member calls a black bakery and asks for a cake with a racist slogan on it and is refused.
Does anyone here really think the black baker should be fined and punished the same as the racist baker?