Jedidiah
New member
You're one of the most thoughtless people I've ever run across.
Christian Man Asks Thirteen Gay Bakeries To Bake Him Pro-Traditional Marriage Cake
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genuineoriginal
New member
Try searching for treatment for sex addiction.
The treatment is typically based on the idea that the lust and fixation can be reasonably controlled.
PneumaPsucheSoma
TOL Subscriber
I know and understand (and thus believe) that homosexuality is sin. Sin is self-detemined standards of conduct that are not God's standard. God's standard of conduct is His own character. His actions are from His attributes. He IS, and thus He does.
Homosexuality is sin (hamartia). Sin is the inner condition of not having God's character for conduct. Sins are individual acts as conduct from that inner condition.
That said... Are we really going to draw the lines of being Christian businesses and refusing service according to sin?
Are Christian car salesmen going to refuse to sell a vehicle to a gay couple? Is the Christain owner of a lube shop going to refuse an oil change to a lesbian couple?
I don't understand why it's such a huge deal to bake a gay couple a cake, even if one adamantly and correctly insists homosexuality is sin. It's not being complicit in their marriage any more than changing the oil in their car would be endorsing their union.
The problem is the legislation, which has come on the heels of decades of culture-sculpting. We've already lost that battle, and it's because the Church hasn't EVER dealt with sin correctly because nobody really knows what sin IS. It's not the actions, it's the inner condition; and Christians are eaten up with the "height" of sin as self-righteouness to the point that they can't see their own standard for conduct isn't God's.
The political and judicial climate has turned. Christians need to find better ways to stand for truth than choosing hot-button issues and refusing retail services to homosexuals, etc. That's already a sinking ship, and it's the fault of the Church culture in our country.
Would a Christian baker refuse to bake a birthday cake for a homosexual? How would the baker even know, apart from certain "queen"-type personalities?
Exactly what products and services should be withheld by Christian business owners from the public based upon what criteria? What about heterosexual adulterers? What about the confirmed 70% of church-going Christian men who are addicted on some level to pornography and masturbation? What about liars?
How realistic is it to abstain from offering business services to homosexuals? And why the inequity of it only being bakeries and meeting places? And why do gluttons get a bye from Christian restaurant owners?
The list in virtually endless.
No, I'm not advocating compromise or tolerance or endorsement of homosexuality or going "easy" on sin. That's what's already happening. Singling out homosexuals is easy for Christians in one sense, because it takes the focus off of all other sin.
The hypocrisy of the Church has painted this self-portrait, and it's because Believers have so long condoned their own sin and its results as normal while crying out against more easily identifiable and historically unacceptable behaviors that have now become mainstream culture because we're such a vapid and impotent witness for our Savior as a whole.
Blame the homosexuals all you want, but the responsibility for culture getting to where it is remains squarely upon the shoulders of Believers. And professing Christians are joining the ranks of the tolerant every day.
Squawking about wedding cakes is too little too late.
Homosexuality is sin (hamartia). Sin is the inner condition of not having God's character for conduct. Sins are individual acts as conduct from that inner condition.
That said... Are we really going to draw the lines of being Christian businesses and refusing service according to sin?
Are Christian car salesmen going to refuse to sell a vehicle to a gay couple? Is the Christain owner of a lube shop going to refuse an oil change to a lesbian couple?
I don't understand why it's such a huge deal to bake a gay couple a cake, even if one adamantly and correctly insists homosexuality is sin. It's not being complicit in their marriage any more than changing the oil in their car would be endorsing their union.
The problem is the legislation, which has come on the heels of decades of culture-sculpting. We've already lost that battle, and it's because the Church hasn't EVER dealt with sin correctly because nobody really knows what sin IS. It's not the actions, it's the inner condition; and Christians are eaten up with the "height" of sin as self-righteouness to the point that they can't see their own standard for conduct isn't God's.
The political and judicial climate has turned. Christians need to find better ways to stand for truth than choosing hot-button issues and refusing retail services to homosexuals, etc. That's already a sinking ship, and it's the fault of the Church culture in our country.
Would a Christian baker refuse to bake a birthday cake for a homosexual? How would the baker even know, apart from certain "queen"-type personalities?
Exactly what products and services should be withheld by Christian business owners from the public based upon what criteria? What about heterosexual adulterers? What about the confirmed 70% of church-going Christian men who are addicted on some level to pornography and masturbation? What about liars?
How realistic is it to abstain from offering business services to homosexuals? And why the inequity of it only being bakeries and meeting places? And why do gluttons get a bye from Christian restaurant owners?
The list in virtually endless.
No, I'm not advocating compromise or tolerance or endorsement of homosexuality or going "easy" on sin. That's what's already happening. Singling out homosexuals is easy for Christians in one sense, because it takes the focus off of all other sin.
The hypocrisy of the Church has painted this self-portrait, and it's because Believers have so long condoned their own sin and its results as normal while crying out against more easily identifiable and historically unacceptable behaviors that have now become mainstream culture because we're such a vapid and impotent witness for our Savior as a whole.
Blame the homosexuals all you want, but the responsibility for culture getting to where it is remains squarely upon the shoulders of Believers. And professing Christians are joining the ranks of the tolerant every day.
Squawking about wedding cakes is too little too late.
TracerBullet
New member
trying (and failing) to insult me doesn't change the simple fact that lust is the only attribute you use when talking about gays.
If you want to complain about thoughtless people then why don't you start there?
PureX
Well-known member
It can be. But in many instances, it isn't.
Radiation is a treatment for cancer, but in many instances it doesn't work. The cancer returns. Nevertheless, it is still a common method of treatment for cancer because it does work for some people.
genuineoriginal
New member
If you are claiming that the perverted lust and fixation will never fully go away, then you are in agreement with the people that conduct the treatments for sexual addiction.
However, the claim I made is the same one they make.
The lust and fixation can be reasonably controlled.
PureX
Well-known member
Yes, it can … sometimes. Sometimes it can't, or sometimes no control is desired.
I expect that sexually obsessive behaviors are a lot like other forms of addiction, wherein there is a combination of biological inclination coupled with a history of sexual abuse that combine to drive a person's desire to abuse themselves and others. And it's very difficult to control such a driving desire. However, one can learn how not to act on it, and eventually even learn how to "diffuse" the many behavioral triggers.
But that takes oversight, education, practice, and the determination to stick with it. And not everyone afflicted with such a condition will meet these standards.
Jedidiah
New member
:rotfl: Good one.
I know 'em. You evidently do not. Watch a lot of television I bet. Not movies, they're usually more brutally honest, but television shows depict the most sanitized idealized LGBTQ's I've ever seen, like Barbyandken dolls. Flagrant misrepresentation. IOW a lie. Except that it's not a lie, it's a joke, television show LGBTQ's are a joke that the entertainment industry assumes that you get, so they don't tell you it's a joke, ever, because that'd insult your intelligence, as if you needed to be told it's a joke, rather than that you're smart and you've known all along that television shows' depiction of LGBTQ's is a joke.
We're given a trial, a testing. The way you fail is you lust. That's it; that's the whole thing. If you fail you fail. You don't have to keep failing and sometimes you do. Failing by lusting is sinning, see below.
Oh I know I know. This is irrelevant to whether poor old Robin Williams mistakenly thought that lust and biology are the same thing.
You do not understand them.
Paul said, "...whatever is not from faith is sin."
Sin belies no faith.
I know 'em. You evidently do not. Watch a lot of television I bet. Not movies, they're usually more brutally honest, but television shows depict the most sanitized idealized LGBTQ's I've ever seen, like Barbyandken dolls. Flagrant misrepresentation. IOW a lie. Except that it's not a lie, it's a joke, television show LGBTQ's are a joke that the entertainment industry assumes that you get, so they don't tell you it's a joke, ever, because that'd insult your intelligence, as if you needed to be told it's a joke, rather than that you're smart and you've known all along that television shows' depiction of LGBTQ's is a joke.
We're given a trial, a testing. The way you fail is you lust. That's it; that's the whole thing. If you fail you fail. You don't have to keep failing and sometimes you do. Failing by lusting is sinning, see below.
Oh I know I know. This is irrelevant to whether poor old Robin Williams mistakenly thought that lust and biology are the same thing.
You do not understand them.
Paul said, "...whatever is not from faith is sin."
Sin belies no faith.
This thirteen Wedding Cake OP Subject, Reminds me of a Certain story about myself;
I went to a bunch of Churches, and their pastors Rejected Marrying Me; and, They believe that People who live together should be Married, yet I live with my Wife but they will not Give us Their Ceremony.
Why would that Be?
Do you think?
Anybody at all?
=M=
Are there any pastors here that would be Willing to Perform the Ceremony?
(I also have the father of my Wife's Blessing; he Claims the Baptist Denomination as his.)
I went to a bunch of Churches, and their pastors Rejected Marrying Me; and, They believe that People who live together should be Married, yet I live with my Wife but they will not Give us Their Ceremony.
Why would that Be?
Do you think?
Anybody at all?
=M=
Are there any pastors here that would be Willing to Perform the Ceremony?
(I also have the father of my Wife's Blessing; he Claims the Baptist Denomination as his.)
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Dear Mark,
Making yourself one with each other is commendable. With God and with you both. You all seem to forget God is a forgiving, unconditionally-loving God. You put a limit on what He can understand. Put an end to fornication, lying, thefts, and sorcery (psychics, fortune-tellers, etc.). These are things that God doesn't like. See Rev. 10:21. Fornication is sexual intercourse between unmarried persons. So guys who hit the bars every Friday and Saturday night, bring home a new girl each night, every week, are fornicating terribly and they don't even know it. Look up the word in your dictionary. But for you to not be allowed to marry and live as a couple is downright ignorant. God loved me for years when I was gay, until I finally realized what I was doing and abstained (over 8 years ago). I wanted to live my life as it would please God instead of as it would please me. So I became a eunuch for Jesus. My life revolves around God and Jesus, and the Holy Ghost. No, I didn't realize I was wrong before and God definitely loved me through all of it. He never quit understanding my position. He stood by me through thick and thin. So now, I do the same thing for Him. I also quit smoking after 40 years. It's been over a year now. I did it for God and tried, and tried, and finally, I was able to do it. I'm so glad I kept trying. Same with being gay. I had to gradually wean myself off of it. I do not have lust for men or for women. I'm also a virgin with women. I'm asexual now. And I am very happy with myself. God waited for me to get the hang of it and loved me while I was in the wrong, and loved me still once I realized it and I finally corrected my actions.
That's the testimony I can give to you Mark. He has loved you since you were born. He's forgiven you of all your sins, just like He does for everyone, but He does want you to repent. Marrying your wife is just the right answer for you. It is the BEST THING that you could do!! Go for it. Even if it's at a Justice of the Peace. There you go. We all have sins. Some people look down at people who are gay. Like Jesus said, "He who is without sin, let him cast the first stone!!" It applies today as well.
In Christ's Love, Mark,
Michael
Making yourself one with each other is commendable. With God and with you both. You all seem to forget God is a forgiving, unconditionally-loving God. You put a limit on what He can understand. Put an end to fornication, lying, thefts, and sorcery (psychics, fortune-tellers, etc.). These are things that God doesn't like. See Rev. 10:21. Fornication is sexual intercourse between unmarried persons. So guys who hit the bars every Friday and Saturday night, bring home a new girl each night, every week, are fornicating terribly and they don't even know it. Look up the word in your dictionary. But for you to not be allowed to marry and live as a couple is downright ignorant. God loved me for years when I was gay, until I finally realized what I was doing and abstained (over 8 years ago). I wanted to live my life as it would please God instead of as it would please me. So I became a eunuch for Jesus. My life revolves around God and Jesus, and the Holy Ghost. No, I didn't realize I was wrong before and God definitely loved me through all of it. He never quit understanding my position. He stood by me through thick and thin. So now, I do the same thing for Him. I also quit smoking after 40 years. It's been over a year now. I did it for God and tried, and tried, and finally, I was able to do it. I'm so glad I kept trying. Same with being gay. I had to gradually wean myself off of it. I do not have lust for men or for women. I'm also a virgin with women. I'm asexual now. And I am very happy with myself. God waited for me to get the hang of it and loved me while I was in the wrong, and loved me still once I realized it and I finally corrected my actions.
That's the testimony I can give to you Mark. He has loved you since you were born. He's forgiven you of all your sins, just like He does for everyone, but He does want you to repent. Marrying your wife is just the right answer for you. It is the BEST THING that you could do!! Go for it. Even if it's at a Justice of the Peace. There you go. We all have sins. Some people look down at people who are gay. Like Jesus said, "He who is without sin, let him cast the first stone!!" It applies today as well.
In Christ's Love, Mark,
Michael
Dear Mark,
You don't have to tell them that you live together. It's totally your own private issue. If the churches don't want to marry you, then go to a Justice of the Peace. My Pastor and my church WOULD marry you. It is like no church I've ever gone to. They let you wear jeans, even if they are a bit worn and torn. I usually wear a suit and tie. But I have gone in shorts and a scrub top with a hat on that said God Is Good! They were fine with it. They accepted me when I told them I was gay long ago, I told the old pastor and the new one now that we have. I told them both on the same day. They still accepted me and we love and respect each other. They don't look down at me whatsoever. It is a Baptist Church. They baptized me in the Baptismal Pool after they knew. And that helped me a lot. I had already been baptized with the Holy Ghost twice. Well, I digress.
God Be With You Both!! He Knows That You Love Each Other!!
Michael
Michael, Right; but, I had to go to Marriage Counseling to be interviewed by these Obviously Ignorant to the Bible "Christians".
So, Unless I want to Lie to a Pastor, that Asks me if I live with my Wife, I'm not allowed to have My Marriage Ceremony?
I agree, But in God's Eyes we are already One.
Why Can't I find a Pastor to Marry Me, and Perform the Ceremony?
Michael; Why do you think Pastors have gotten so Uptight about Marrying People?
(We have a Home to get our Lives started in and Everything.)
=M=
I'm so done with the Church's Extra-Biblical Beliefs.
They say they are based on the Bible, and claim they have/know/possess truth Based on the Bible; but every one of them has Extra-Biblical Beliefs as far as I know.
Does anybody have a Suggestion?
Do I have to find a good Synagogue, or Something Like That?
I would love a Rabbi to do the Marriage Ceremony.
So, Unless I want to Lie to a Pastor, that Asks me if I live with my Wife, I'm not allowed to have My Marriage Ceremony?
Michael said:
I agree, But in God's Eyes we are already One.
Why Can't I find a Pastor to Marry Me, and Perform the Ceremony?
Michael; Why do you think Pastors have gotten so Uptight about Marrying People?
(We have a Home to get our Lives started in and Everything.)
=M=
I'm so done with the Church's Extra-Biblical Beliefs.
They say they are based on the Bible, and claim they have/know/possess truth Based on the Bible; but every one of them has Extra-Biblical Beliefs as far as I know.
Does anybody have a Suggestion?
Do I have to find a good Synagogue, or Something Like That?
I would love a Rabbi to do the Marriage Ceremony.
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Dear Mark,
Have you tried a Nazarene or Episcopalian Church?? I can't believe you're having so much trouble. Why do they want to interview you first. Get away from them. They are bozos. Try a different Baptist Church even. Oy vay!!
Pray To God About It!! He Will Lead You Where You Need To Go!!
Michael
P.S. Mark, the Post above this one is not meant for you necessarily. It's to all people.
Thanks!
Have you tried a Nazarene or Episcopalian Church?? I can't believe you're having so much trouble. Why do they want to interview you first. Get away from them. They are bozos. Try a different Baptist Church even. Oy vay!!
Pray To God About It!! He Will Lead You Where You Need To Go!!
Michael
P.S. Mark, the Post above this one is not meant for you necessarily. It's to all people.
Thanks!
You wife's father has given you his blessing and he is a Baptist. Try another Baptist Church, if you can, unless you've already done this. My Baptist Church would marry you. They are not so stuffy!! It is the second most best church I've ever gone to in my life.
May God Guide You!!
Michael
dreadknought
New member
The reason for issues, your kind. Quit defending the bs.
: D
Thanks Michael!!!
=M=
You are a Great Friend!
Thanks Michael!!!
=M=
You are a Great Friend!
Dear Mark,
You are a Great Friend Too!! I am very glad that we crossed paths. I do trust you will be able to resolve your marriage plans soon. I know you are probably eager to marry. Why does it have to be in a church?? I know that's what you want, but a Justice of the Peace is okay also. Either way, just keep searching for the right church in the meantime.
Much Love to You And Your Wife,
Michael
:sigh:
:shut:
No, I Disagree; a Justice of the Peace is not "Ok Too" (In My Opinion), to do the Ceremony.
=M=
The "Justice of the Peace" Doesn't follow the Law of God; The "Justice of the Peace" clearly has another god, which they Refer to as the "Government".
God Bless, I hope you understand it's absolutely not the Same.
In my opinion, in that case I may as well just sign a Paper that gets me Deals on Insurance... That's Not Marriage, or a Real Ceremony, or the Taking Place of a True Vow.
I want the Person who Performs the Marriage Ceremony, to have the Same God I do.
That makes sense, right?
=M=
The "Justice of the Peace" Doesn't follow the Law of God; The "Justice of the Peace" clearly has another god, which they Refer to as the "Government".
God Bless, I hope you understand it's absolutely not the Same.
In my opinion, in that case I may as well just sign a Paper that gets me Deals on Insurance... That's Not Marriage, or a Real Ceremony, or the Taking Place of a True Vow.
I want the Person who Performs the Marriage Ceremony, to have the Same God I do.
That makes sense, right?
PneumaPsucheSoma
TOL Subscriber
What is the Biblical precedent for wedding vows?
Why would you think religious leaders who are granted ordination through the government and are mostly from non-profit corporations that are incorporated into that governement would be joining you in "holy matrimony" anyway?
Marriage is a covenant with God and each other. It shouldn't include the State. Why would you want that? It's no different than the Justice of the Peace, except it's someone setting aside God for the State instead of never representing God at all.
PneumaPsucheSoma
TOL Subscriber
Why? A Rabbi is a Talmudist. They don't have the same God as you.
And why would you worship in a church where the clergy would scrutinize you with such judgment?