Catholics: Muslims are your brothers and sisters

[Aimiel]

Not just dumb, but sheer blasphemy. Making Christ out to be a drunkard and a glutton is ignorant. Jesus never sinned. He was 'said' to be such, but many lies have been told about Him over the millennia. They simply aren't true. He is. One of His Names is: "Faithful and True."

 

[Omniskeptical]

In what way, exactly...?

Interfering with God's will. His time hadn't even come during celebration. You can't argue that she didn't wrong him there.

In fact, by God's grace, Mary maintained her virginity

WRONG, she accomplished what any women could have done, but it is difficult to do so.

 

[Lazy afternoon]

Song, drink and celebration were characteristic of Jesus.

May I cut-and-paste some scriptural evidence of this fact?

"The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, 'Here is a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners.' But wisdom is proved right by her deeds."

Most people couldn't stand Jesus. Just as you do as well, apparently.

Jesus was a socially promiscuous party animal. And it got him killed.... Please don't kill him again.

Using the accusations of the wicked as if what they said is truth, is itself, a wicked thing to do.

LA

 

[musterion]

Using the accusations of the wicked as if what they said is truth, is itself, a wicked thing to do.

LA

Very true.

 

[aikido7]

False accusation, the same as what you are doing. Matthew 11:18,19 (what do BOTH verses have in common? Oh yeah, the 'accusations' they record are both blatant lies, and here you are blatantly repeating one of them!)As I said, HE had Paul write NOT to get drunk and NOT to over-eat. Gluttony and drunkenness are listed as sins. 1 Corinthians 6:10 If your Jesus sinned, He couldn't save you. Hebrews 4:15 You are woefully negligent in your scripture reading and ignorant in your understanding. Whoever you 'think' you know, is not Him. He is some made-up figment of your imagination thus an idol. Leviticus 26:1

If you really knew Him and loved Him, you'd have in the past and currenty be pouring through His love letter (the Bible) to you and coming to understand Him and know Him, not the figment in your imagination.
You need to be introduced to the real Jesus Matthew 7:21-23 so that all these scriptures readily come to mind and correct your horrible perception. You have to know Him, to set anybody up with Him, otherwise you are just a blow-hard wanna-be that is lying about your contacts with important people you don't even know.

I should have been more clear.

I was referring to Jesus only. Paul wrote his letters a couple of decades after the crucifixion.

He was not interested in Jesus in any historical sense--other than saying he was "born of a woman" and was "buried." Paul seems unaware of a virgin birth or an empty tomb tradition.

I am trying to get across the "scandal" that was the authentic, earth-walking Jesus. The scholarly consensus is that he disturbed many because of his behavior--coming from his outreach to the unreachable and his public flouting of deeply-held cultural norms.

If all we do is focus on the theology of Jesus as Savior, virgin-born, Son of God, etc. we miss the actual, real, historical context of Jesus in his own culture in the first century.

 

[aikido7]

Using the accusations of the wicked as if what they said is truth, is itself, a wicked thing to do.

LA

Your post makes no sense to me. It sounds to me like you are judging, deeming to know the difference between the righteous and the unrighteous.

Is it "wicked" to regard as true the voice of the crowd which said of Jesus's death "...may his blood be on us and our children!"?

The truth is that Jesus was seen as a disruptive and blasphemous presence.

The truth--like it or not--is that he was seen as "a glutton and a drunkard." And there were good, historical reasons why his critics said what they did.
And they are recorded in the Bible.

I myself have no trouble wondering:

"Why did they single him out as someone who drank and ate a lot?"
"Why are these savage attacks on Jesus preserved by the gospel writers?"
"Why did the authors believe they were important to remember and write down?"

Knowing a bit more now of the religious, cultural and political context of the time informs my interpretation of the absolute scandal Jesus of Nazareth was to his critics.

 

[aikido7]

Dumbest post I've ever seen on TOL.

First of all, I am not a "Christ hater." For me Christ is the norm of the Bible and I have spent most of my time on TOL in getting Jesus back into the discussion.

Any careful reader of the Bible knows the way Jesus was regarded in his day. The truth of history still comes through Scripture and can inform us about the day-to-day life Jesus and his followers experienced.

Just because I pass along an interpretation as to why Jesus was criticized as a "drunkard" or a "glutton" does not mean I agree with his critics!

How does that make any sense at all?

I think you read my comments with inattention and to reinforce your own prejudices.

You owe me a Bible-based explanation why you think my comments are "the dumbest post [you've] ever seen on TOL."

 

[aikido7]

Not just dumb, but sheer blasphemy. Making Christ out to be a drunkard and a glutton is ignorant. Jesus never sinned. He was 'said' to be such, but many lies have been told about Him over the millennia. They simply aren't true. He is. One of His Names is: "Faithful and True."

I don't believe you understood me.

Let me be clear. The truth is this: Jesus was seen as a blasphemous disturbance and many of his critics called him names (just like "critics" on TOL do with other posters).

These criticisms of Jesus are written down in the New Testament.
Because they are in the Bible I acknowledge, that means I have to take them seriously.

I am not disagreeing with you about the lies told about Jesus. Good people who were doing the best they could with their information and beliefs had different views about Jesus:

Some said "I see God, let's follow him."
Others said "This guy is boring, I'm outta here."
Others said "This guy is a threat, let's kill him."
Many said "This guy celebrates openly with the human trash."
And others said "This guy is a drunkard and a glutton."

You assert that one of Jesus's names was "Faithful and True." I have never read this anywhere before, but I will never feel or claim this opinion of yours is "wrong."

Why is it--seriously--that you judge me as wicked just because I pass along the possible motivations why wicked people in Jesus's day did what they did?

 

[aikido7]

If you really knew Him and loved Him, you'd have in the past and currenty be pouring through His love letter (the Bible) to you and coming to understand Him and know Him, not the figment in your imagination.

So because your opinion is that I don't study the Bible that then means I don't know and love Jesus?

Please don't judge me. Try to see the logs in your own eyes before you deem to point out the speck of sawdust in your neighbor's.

You are making a lot of guesses about me and you are guessing wrong.

 

[Puppet]

Welcome to your new, bigger, happier family under one false god.

Just hang in there, the Catholics have something up their sleeves:

 

[Eric h]

I find it a great sadness when Christians, Catholics, Orthodox , etc, cannot act towards each other as brothers and sisters.

 

[Aimiel]

It is sad, but will one day be made perfect.

 

[patrick jane]

I think a lot of Catholics just think they're Catholic because maybe they were baptized at a Catholic church or they went with it because it was popular and easy. I think many Catholics don't attend church and stopped reading the Bible, resting on their false security of claiming to be Catholic. I thought I was Catholic most of my life.

 

[Eric h]

It is sad, but will one day be made perfect.

I pray regularly with Christians from a number of denominations, this breaks down so many barriers.