ECT Can the Great Tribulation be far off?? Wake Up Christian!!

[Totton Linnet]

Nope "the city" is Jerusalem and "the people" are the Israelites.

You are simply misreading those passages.

Apparantly, you do not restudy a thing out when a view different fron your own is presented to you.

You'd do better to study out how those two phrases "the city" and "the people" are used throughout, when Israel is mentioned.

Yes my dear but don't you see that Jerusalem is focus of it all? THAT is where the temple is to be built in which is the seat that Ac is to covet from which he will declare himself God. But he will not do so at the start of his career but at the end of his career.

Let me show you this thing

People wonder about just when Ac will be revealed and who he is.

FIRSTLY

The Jews are going to go home, ALL the Jews. They will flee the nations in which they now dwell, what will cause this?

The Revelator speaks of 2 beasts the first to arise from out of the sea, with the horns which are kings and the one great horn who is Ac, the sea denotes always in scripture the nations, Ac will be the one world ruler. The second beast with the appearance of a lamb but the voice of a dragon , he comes out of the earth, in scripture Israel. He is the false prophet. He will come prophesying the coming of Messiah and he will do great miracles, even many Christians will be ready to believe him.

That is what will cause the Jews to mass exodus home they will bring the wealth of the nations with them which is why they will flee in panic [put that aside for now, I know what it is but it will get in the way]

Israel will become a superstate

Now Ac will be trampling down all opposition against his rule, and all religion...THAT is the tribulation my friend. Just like when Christ first came and Herod was troubled [tribulated] and all Jerusalem with him.

Ac will have a pact with Israel, he will wait for them to build the temple. Now when the temple is built he will break his pact and invade bringing the nations up with hime to Jerusalem.

Now look here

This temple is not the heavenly temple of the millennium, it is built upon the false expectation of Messiah. THAT is why God warns to flee Jerusalem...this is the sifting of Israel, between those who obey God and those who rebel and fight against Ac to defend the temple.

Ac will prevail.....only to be destroyed by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. When the Jews look upon Him who they have pierced they will mourn for Him and be converted.

What remains of the church after the great persecution will have been raptured to meet the coming Lord.

Now you know everything

 

[Danoh]

I'll leave it that, Totten. The best to you.

 

[Totton Linnet]

Beware of wishing suffering on the Jews

 

[Interplanner]

TL wrote:
When the Jews look upon Him who they have pierced they will mourn for Him and be converted.

One of the reasons that putting all this in our future is mistaken, is this line. The apostles taught that it was about the Gospel, and when they taught that they never said 'oh and it has a double meaning for later...' The reason they did that is because God dealing with ethnes as such is over; Rom 11:30. Every transaction with mankind is now through and upon the Gospel. Even for Jews.

The final verse of Dan 9 is not a jump to a distant future, about which the text knows nothing. It is about the 'rebellion that desolates' of 8:13 which was the 'great revolt' of the 1st century. The leading figures spoke bombastically of God and claimed to be the anointed One etc. It all happened 'on time'--on the timeframe set out in the 70 weeks, which both Caiaphas and Josephus knew of.

As for your final line, I don't know where there is a 2nd program in the NT that says that the secular nation of Israel has "NT privileges" or some kind of criss-crossed theology like that. I'm all for their preservation, since the area needs constitutional governments, not shari'a law. But there is not, nor is there a need for, a 'divine' protection of Israel 'for prophecy's sake' or for the final day of God's judgement of earth to take place.

Due to existing ancient hostilities from not knowing Eph 2-3 (who really would expect secular Jews or fundamentalist Muslims to truly know Eph 2-3?) that have been going on for centuries, I doubt very much that any peace will take place there any time soon. D'ism is particular noxious here for its mindless siding with one side via a system of nonsensical predetermined prophecy when it should have been expounding what Eph 2-3 says.

 

[Totton Linnet]

TL wrote:
When the Jews look upon Him who they have pierced they will mourn for Him and be converted.

One of the reasons that putting all this in our future is mistaken, is this line. The apostles taught that it was about the Gospel, and when they taught that they never said 'oh and it has a double meaning for later...' The reason they did that is because God dealing with ethnes as such is over; Rom 11:30. Every transaction with mankind is now through and upon the Gospel. Even for Jews.

The final verse of Dan 9 is not a jump to a distant future, about which the text knows nothing. It is about the 'rebellion that desolates' of 8:13 which was the 'great revolt' of the 1st century. The leading figures spoke bombastically of God and claimed to be the anointed One etc. It all happened 'on time'--on the timeframe set out in the 70 weeks, which both Caiaphas and Josephus knew of.

Dan 12 IS a leap into the far future. In 70ad Michael did not stand up for Israel and they were not delivered.

You keeps reading Israel's fall, we know all about that. But the mouths of all the prophets speak about Israel's latter day greatness, their rise, their vindication when those who were graffed out will be graffed back in. When those who were diminished will receive fullness, when those who were cast away will be received, when those who fell will be reconciled

And so ALL Israel will be saved....that is Paul's summing up.

 

[Interplanner]

But he was referring to the other Israel as in Eph 2-3 which was those who do the mission of the new covenant. There is no old covenant, no theocratic Judaism, to revive.

Why would God restore any of what you mentioned?

 

[Totton Linnet]

But he was referring to the other Israel as in Eph 2-3 which was those who do the mission of the new covenant. There is no old covenant, no theocratic Judaism, to revive.

Why would God restore any of what you mentioned?

An IMPOSSIBLE interpretation

The church, the Israel of God in Ephesians were never fallen, never diminished, never graffed out.

Goto...show where God's covenant to Abraham was ever annulled, it was an eternal covenant...to all his seed.

 

[Interplanner]

So you have never read Gal 3?

 

[Interplanner]

The basis of being included in the people of God is what changed in the new era. It is no longer ethne. It is by faith and by being at work in the mission.

Isn't it telltale that Mt 21's parable where the vineyard is only going to employ those who do the work of the mission is the parable that says that is the 'ethne' of God? It is the reason this play on words took place.

 

[Interplanner]

An IMPOSSIBLE interpretation

The church, the Israel of God in Ephesians were never fallen, never diminished, never graffed out.

Goto...show where God's covenant to Abraham was ever annulled, it was an eternal covenant...to all his seed.

You haven't sorted out Gal 3:17. Somebody voided and redirected the covenant. Guess who?

 

[Totton Linnet]

So you have never read Gal 3?

So you couldn't argue Eph so now lets look at Galations

Know ye therefore thAt YE are the children of Abraham

And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith preached beforehand the gospel unto Abraham sayin in thee shall all the nations be blessed.

This scripture does not say Abraham is annulled, it says that WE are brought into the promise given to Abraham

Verse 14 the blessing of Abraham has come upon us through Christ Jesus....the promise nor the blessing has been annulled they both still stand.

Now look here if you say that the promise to Abe has been annulled then our portion with Abe is annulled with it. For we are brought into his promise.

We are made fellow citizens of the commonwealth of Israel, co-heirs of the covenant of promise, The important thing is the promise, the promise is the seed, the promise is Christ.

In Christ is neither Jew or Gentile.

But THE LAND was promised to Abraham's seed which should spring from his loins...that promise must be a sure, as guaranteed as all the rest.

If God doesn't fulfil THAT promise, how do you know He will fulfil the rest?

 

[Totton Linnet]

YOU say it is not ethnic but God says it is...the seed that springs from Abe's loins

 

[Totton Linnet]

YOU say it is not ethnic but God says it is...the seed that springs from Abe's loins

The seed are not promised heaven, they are promised the land. their heritage to the ends of the earth...but the God's plan in THAT age is to unite heaven and earth...this is the millennial age. The church in heaven the Jews on earth

 

[Interplanner]

The seed are not promised heaven, they are promised the land. their heritage to the ends of the earth...but the God's plan in THAT age is to unite heaven and earth...this is the millennial age. The church in heaven the Jews on earth

No guys, sorry. None of it is choped and diced like you are trying to do. You are trying to preserve 2P2P which does not exist in the Bible.

"His plan was that now through the church (the unity in the Gospel no matter your background), his wisdom would be demonstrated to the principalities in heavenly realms, according to his eternal purpose which he accomplished in Christ Jesus our Lord." Eph 3:10.

Translation: the access to grace in the Gospel event for us who are sinners, which unifies us to all other believers, was God's redemptive purpose and proves to 'principalities' that he has total control.

That is what God was doing that affects all heaven, earth, past, present, Jew, non-Jew, human, celestial entity, etc. It's all there. No ethnes, no wars in the middle east, no advance knowledge of oil reserves, no milleniums, no temples, no ACDC, etc.

 

[Totton Linnet]

You are drunk on words "according to His eternal purpose which He accomplished in Christ...God's redemptive purpose"

Well what IS His eternal purpose? His redemptive will?

Paul tells us, it is to unite ALL things in heaven and on earth in Christ Jesus.....but you say just things in heaven.

 

[serpentdove]

The Great Tribulation already happened...

It may have felt that way (Ro 8:18) :shocked: but, no. The Great Tribulation is yet to come. When the church is raptured, then the Great Tribulation will begin. :surf: Get in the Ark (Ro 10:13). :burnlib:

 

[Cross Reference]

It may have felt that way (Ro 8:18) :shocked: but, no. The Great Tribulation is yet to come. When the church is raptured, then the Great Tribulation will begin. :surf: Get in the Ark (Ro 10:13). :burnlib:

Rev 6:9-11; 7:14 KJV

 

[Interplanner]

You are drunk on words "according to His eternal purpose which He accomplished in Christ...God's redemptive purpose"

Well what IS His eternal purpose? His redemptive will?

Paul tells us, it is to unite ALL things in heaven and on earth in Christ Jesus.....but you say just things in heaven.

Actually, no. The things that are unified in Christ are on earth. This is a demonstration to the 'principalities' of the power of God. Those 'prinicipalities' are up in the heavenly realms. IE, it was meant to cross zones. Conversely, the discord and war on earth among those outside of Christ proves the same thing--that there is only unity in Christ.

 

[fzappa13]

Why are only those in Judea told to flee to the mountains before the great tribulation?

These are they spoken of in Rev 12:6 and 14. This will be the Jews second wilderness experience and their flight path will largely resemble the first however, this time their flight will begin and end in Jerusalem. This will happen after Satan and his angels lose their war with Michael et al.

 

[Interplanner]

These are they spoken of in Rev 12:6 and 14. This will be the Jews second wilderness experience and their flight path will largely resemble the first however, this time their flight will begin and end in Jerusalem. This will happen after Satan and his angels lose their war with Michael et al.

Then why doesn't the text say so. What you have said here is an additional step of irrationality. First we have to make the text jump X000 years into the future. Then we have to imagine him telling those X000 in the future to 'leave, and then go back.' Right.

There is nothing in Mt24A about mixing the events of 1st century Judea with battles between angels and demons.

There is no tidy sync between Mt24A and the Rev, because that is not why the Rev was written. This is why there are nearly one view for every 'expert' to whom it has been 'revealed' 'exactly' what the text of the Rev was saying. Which is ridiculous arrogance on the part of them all for thinking so.