Can the Christians here accept the Biblical fact that God is one?

[oatmeal]

Bs'd

I guess that means we have to straighten them out.

A beautiful task, isn't it?


By the way, do you believe that JC was God?



Eliyahu

Eliyahu,

No, I do not.

Scripture says he is the son of God. About 50 times.

Not once is he called "God the Son" or God-man or any of that other error.

oatmeal

 

[oatmeal]

The Catholic Church teaches that God is one.. but there are 3 persons in the Godhead.. Dont ask me to explain, but even though many have a hard time understand this, i never did... dont get why its so hard for some... but then others understadn things I don't... like math...

Jesus is the Word of God.. meaning the Truth of God..

The Holy Spirit is the.. Spirit of God..

Then there's the Father who stays in Heaven... seemingly at a great distance... most of the time

which is why we need Jesus...

He is the "bridge" to God...

C4P,

Looking at:

which is why we need Jesus...

He is the "bridge" to God...

That is basically what John 14:6 says.

Jesus Christ is the way, the path to the Father.

The Father is our destination.

Jesus Christ, as the way, "paved the way for us to get to the Father" more directly and intimately than has been available before.

oatmeal

 

[oatmeal]

Bs'd

I showed you guys all the places where the Bible teaches that God is one.

Can you guys now show me where the Bible teaches that God is a trinity?




Eliyahu

Eliyahu,

Good call.

oatmeal

 

[oatmeal]

Perhaps you missed a response given earlier here. Can you take a time out to fully digest the content linked therein? Perhaps afterwards, the discussion may move in a more substantive manner.

AMR

AMR,

Since you sincerely believe in the trinity.

Since you sincerely believe that is scriptural.

Since you sincerely believe it is gospel.

Since you sincerely believe it is necessary for us to believe and understand.

Could you be so kind as to explain it as you understand it in your own words?

Then I would be assured of what YOU are talking about, not what someone else thinks.

I think that is a reasonable request.

What do you believe is a working, scriptural definition of the trinity?

Does your definition include "three in one"?

Does it include "co-equal"?

Please, tell us, in your own words, what is the trinity?

oatmeal

 

[some other dude]

Bs'd

I showed you guys all the places where the Bible teaches that God is one.

Can you guys now show me where the Bible teaches that God is a trinity?




Eliyahu

Yes, of course we could.


But it would be wasted effort.

Pointless.

You have already made up your mind.

Or at least you think you have.

Your insecurity with your decision to reject the concept of the trinity leads you to seek verification by posting on the internet. You think that if you can find people who agree with you, you will be vindicated in your decision.

 

[oatmeal]

Bs'd

Genesis 1:26; "Let us make man" If anybody finds in a text the word "us", would any normal person assume that it refers to one person with a multi-personality disorder? Of course not.

But why then, when Christians see the word "us" in the Bible, do they think that?

Gen 1:26 is used as a 'proof' that there is more than one God, or one God who is not one, eventhough the Bible clearly teaches that there is only one God who is one. and despite the fact that there are several other valid explanations for the plural word "us". One explanation is that it is a majestic plural as used by kings. Another possible explanation is that God was talking to the angels.

Some Christians try to refute the last argument by saying that the angels didn't create. They point to Genesis 1:1; "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth." They say: 'God was the creator, and not the angels.' However, it is a given in Jewish law that an emissary is equal to the one who sends him. When a Jewish man marries a woman through an agent, the legal effect is the same as when he marries her personally. A good Biblical example of this is to be found in Genesis 19 where is spoken about the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah. God sent two angels to destroy the cities, the angels said to Lot in verse 13: "For we are about to destroy this place, because the outcry against its people has become great before the LORD, and the LORD has sent us to destroy it." Upon this Lot says to his sons in law: "Up, get out of this place; for the LORD is about to destroy the city." Lot didn't say: "The angels are going to destroy the city" He said: "The LORD (Y-H-W-H in the Hebrew text) is going to destroy the city". And in verse 29 it is written: "So it was that, when God destroyed the cities of the valley...." So the angels were send by God to destroy the cities, but God is considered to be the one who did it, because He was the one who sent them. So why shouldn't the same hold true for the creation?

But one way or the other, no plural created man. Look in Genesis 5:1; "When God created man ..." In Hebrew this is: "bara Elohiem adam" Here the verb "to create", in Hebrew "bara", is in the singular, indicating clearly that Elohiem who created man is one. The same goes for the very first verse of the Bible: "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth." The word created is here written in the singular; it says "bara". If God was a plural, it should have been "baru".



I don't believe in the NT, so I don't see any use in explaining it.

What I can tell you, is that everybody can claim to be God.

Mental institutions are full of people like that.



Eliyahu

Your points are well taken.

I don't believe in the NT, so I don't see any use in explaining it.

What I can tell you, is that everybody can claim to be God.

Mental institutions are full of people like that.

The first reason that I was given that Jesus Christ could not be God is "no man can be God"

I thought to myself. That's right, if one man can claim to be God, then any man can claim to be God. Who could we believe? How would we know?

"Before Abraham was, I am"

We must ask ourself, " Is Abraham the promised Messiah, seed of Genesis 3:15?

No,

Is Abraham the subject of Genesis 3:15?

Was Genesis 3:15

1. a wild guess?

2. an eleventh hour plan by God to rescue man?

3. a perhaps? a maybe? can I get this done?

4. a false promise that God would not be able to deliver?

God, who created the heavens and the earth promised a seed of the woman.

Measured by God's omnipotence and omniscience, it was already a reality. Nothing could or would stop that from coming to pass.

When God speaks, we are to pay attention.

Listen and remember and obey and adjust ourselves accordingly.

We are to go with God's flow.

Neither Abraham or Moses or anyone else is mentioned in Genesis 3:15 as the promised seed of the woman.

Only the coming promised messiah.

God's word is as good as done.

oatmeal

 

[oatmeal]

[Jesus]“I and My Father are one.”[/Jesus]
-Jesus
John 10:30

I believe it.

Lighthouse,

One

Ok,

He that plants and he that waters are one.

I Corinthians 3:8

How many more gods do you want to fit into this trinity?

Why is not the Holy spirit mentioned in this "oneness"?

One in person or one in purpose?

oatmeal

 

[oatmeal]

Jesus said "the Father is greater than I".

Does one mean only?

In other words, should different monotheisms be debated, or is this one meaning only too simple?

Can one also mean agreed? For example, if two people are agreed, though they are still two, they are one in their agreement.

Also, the two shall become one flesh.

Likewise I Corinthians 3:8

 

[oatmeal]

Bs'd

Isn't it amazing that, when it comes to religion, Christians suddenly cannot count to three anymore?


Eliyahu

Well said,

Jesus Christ said he, like Jonah, three days and three nights.

Matthew 12:40

He said it twice.

why?

Is it because he thought it important enough to repeat in the same sentence?

Hmm, speaking of traditions of men causing men to transgress the commandments of God.

"Good" Friday to "Easter" Sunday morning.

Three days and three nights?

How many wise men came to the house to see the young child in Matthew 2?

The traditions of men say three.

Scripture does not say.

Why do men guess?

Why not resign ourselves to simply admit we don't know because the scriptures do not tell us.

You are absolutely right.

Mainstream Christian doctrine has a huge problem with the number three.

The followers of that mainstream doctrine have wholly given themselves to serve other gods.

Yet, it is remarkable that many Roman Catholics and other denomational people, when presented with the standard definition of the trinity do not accept that teaching. They say "they do not believe that" and are puzzled that it is supposedly Christian doctrine.

True Christianity is not a dinosaur.

It is alive and well, but it is not popular.

oatmeal

 

[some other dude]

It's fun to add to scripture, isn't it?

 

[oatmeal]

Bs'd

Unless they are total idiots, which I don't think, they should be able to see that they are terribly wrong.



Eliyahu

Agreed.

 

[oatmeal]

Solve for n

1x1x1=n

How many more Gods do you count from Psalm 18:2?

Rock

fortress,

High tower....

How many OT believers have a name of God as part of their name?

Does not that mean they they are God too?

1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1 =1 also.

17-16=1

Now class,

Can you think of any other combinations of numbers and processes that come up with a result equaling one?

oatmeal

 

[oatmeal]

Bs'd

So you think that 1 x 1 x 1 = 1.

Well, we all make mistakes in life. Happens to the best of us. Not everybody is comfortable with higher mathematics.
But I'll explain this to you.

When you have three pieces of fruit, which are all apples, than you have 1 apple + 1 apple + 1apple = 3 apples.

Then you do not have 1 apple x 1 apple x 1 apple = 1 apple, but then you really have THREE apples.

Even so with gods.

When you have three persons who are all divine, then you have 1 god + 1 god + 1 god = 3 gods.

Then you do not have 1 god x 1 god x 1 god = 1 god, but then you really have THREE gods.

Got it?


Eliyahu

Good call

 

[oatmeal]

Bs'd

However, we all know that he was never a king.

He never got any further than a wandering preacher and miracle healer.



It is just that they forgot to mention the rest of the prophecy.

Probably because JC didn't fulfill it.



The messiah comes to bring world peace.

JC said he came to bring the sword, and not peace.

Do we need any more proof that he wasn't the messiah?



Eliyahu

Eliyahu,

The messiah comes to bring world peace.

JC said he came to bring the sword, and not peace.

Do we need any more proof that he wasn't the messiah?

Jesus Christ is not done yet. What we have so far is only phase one.

Hang in there.

oatmeal

 

[oatmeal]

Bs'd

So there we have it: The trinity, or the tri-unity, or the "combined unity", it is nowhere to be found in the Bible.

And what does the Bible tell us?

Yes, the Bible tells us that God is ONE!

"Hear Israel, Y-H-W-H is our God, Y-H-W-H is ONE!" Deut 6:4

"Listen, Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is One" Holman Christian Standard Bible

"Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one." English Standard Version

"Hear, O Israel! The LORD is our God, the LORD is one!" New American Standard Bible

"Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one." New International Version

"Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one!" New King James Version"



"And one of the scribes came up and heard them disputing with one another, and seeing that he answered them well, asked him, "Which commandment is the first of all?" Jesus answered, "The first is, `Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, THE LORD IS ONE; and you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind, and with all your strength.' The second is this, `You shall love your neighbor as yourself.' There is no other commandment greater than these." And the scribe said to him, "You are right, Teacher; you have truly said that HE IS ONE, and there is no other but he; and to love him with all the heart, and with all the understanding, and with all the strength, and to love one's neighbor as oneself, is much more than all whole burnt offerings and sacrifices." And when Jesus saw that he answered wisely, he said to him, "You are not far from the kingdom of God."" Mark 12:28-34 Revised Standard Version

“The most important one,” answered Jesus, “is this: ‘Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one." "You are right in saying that God is one" New International Version

"Here is the most important one. Moses said, 'Israel, listen to me. The Lord is our God. The Lord is one." "You are right in saying that God is one." New International Readers Version

"Jesus answered: Listen, Israel! The Lord our God, The Lord is One." "You have correctly said that He is One," Holman Christian Standard Bible

"Jesus answered, The first is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God, the Lord is one:" "thou hast well said that he is one;" American Standard Version

"Jesus answered him, “The first of all the commandments is: ‘Hear, O Israel, the LORD our God, the LORD is one." New King James Version

"Jesus answered, "The most important is, 'Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one" "You have truly said that he is one," English Standard Version

"Jesus said, "The first in importance is, 'Listen, Israel: The Lord your God is one;" ""A wonderful answer, Teacher! So lucid and accurate—that God is one" The Message

"‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one." "“You are right in saying that God is one" New International Version



"Now an intermediary implies more than one; but GOD IS ONE." Gal 3:20 Revised Standard Version

"Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but GOD IS ONE" King James Version

"A mediator, however, implies more than one party; but GOD IS ONE." New International Version

"Now an intermediary implies more than one, but GOD IS ONE." English Standard Version

"Now a mediator is not a mediator of one; but GOD IS ONE." American Standard Version

"and the mediator is not of one, and GOD IS ONE" Youngs Literal Translation



"You believe that GOD IS ONE; you do well." James 2:19 Revised Standard Version

"thou -- thou dost believe that GOD IS ONE; thou dost well," Youngs Literal translation

"Thou believest that GOD IS ONE; thou doest well:" American Standard Version

"You believe that GOD IS ONE; you do well." Holman Christian Standard Bible.

"*Thou* believest that GOD IS ONE. Thou doest well." Darby Translation.

"It’s good that you believe that GOD IS ONE." Common English Bible

"You believe that GOD IS ONE; you do well." English Standard Version

"You believe that GOD IS ONE; you do well." Amplified Bible

"You believe that GOD IS ONE You do well;" New American Standard Bible



So now the question arises: Why shove aside the Biblical fact that God is one, and try to replace it with "God is three", a concept that is NOWHERE to be found in the Bible?



Eliyahu light unto the nations


"Hear Israel, Y-H-W-H is our God, Y-H-W-H is ONE!" Deut 6:4

"All the peoples walk each in the name of his god, but as for us; we will walk in the name of Y-H-W-H our God forever and ever!" Micah 4:5

This message is sent to you from Mount Zion, Jerusalem, Israel.

"From Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of Y-H-W-H from Jerusalem." Isaiah 2:3, Micah 4:2

Well said,

Thank you.

 

[some other dude]

God is indeed one.

 

[Lighthouse]

Lighthouse,

One

Ok,

He that plants and he that waters are one.

I Corinthians 3:8

How many more gods do you want to fit into this trinity?

Why is not the Holy spirit mentioned in this "oneness"?

One in person or one in purpose?

oatmeal

Are you seriously asking why the Spirit was not mentioned in this one instance?:doh:

He wasn't mentioned in John 1 either. Doesn't change the truth.

 

[Ps82]

Lighthouse,

One

Ok,

He that plants and he that waters are one.

I Corinthians 3:8

How many more gods do you want to fit into this trinity?

Why is not the Holy spirit mentioned in this "oneness"?

One in person or one in purpose?

oatmeal

Oatmeal ... God is the ONE invisible spiritual creator.

God, as the invisible spiritual creator, is the ONE who plants and the ONE who waters.

Our invisible God came to earth APPEARING as a visible son in the form of a man ...His NAME is Emmanuel LORD Jesus. Through our LORD Jesus the invisible spiritual God personally planted the seed of our salvation... and the ONE God watered that seed (Jesus Christ in fleshly form)... who in turn sent the invisible divine SPIRIT of God into the world to water those who would become his future children in his kingdom. Thus the planting and the watering is how men are saved by the ONE God.

A statement like this was spoken:
"Because I am IN YOU ... you are IN ME ... ONE... as the Father and I are ONE.

The Plan:
The invisible God ... created a visible form for his personal use - first mentioned in Gen.1:26-27. This visible image was used by the invisible spiritual God to APPEAR unto men in the OT days as a super-natural heavenly type body - Exodus 24:9-11KJV. and He used the NAME of The LORD (KJEnglish) when appearing among men - Exodus 24:12 KJV.

But the invisible spiritual God had even another purpose for his personal created image. He was to finally manifest IT with mortal flesh as the ultimate divine sacrifice that would provide for the salvation of mankind. God created IT, and God planted IT within our condition ... and through IT God personally sent the spiritual divine WATER into the world unto us for our salvation. This was the plan ... the method God designed for his own reasons!

There is ONE God! HE is they - the Father the Son and the Holy Spirit as well.

 

[oatmeal]

Are you seriously asking why the Spirit was not mentioned in this one instance?:doh:

He wasn't mentioned in John 1 either. Doesn't change the truth.

Lighthouse,

Yes, I am soooooo serioussssss.

Where is this holy ghost?

Why isn't he one with JC and the Father?

Why is HG not mentioned in John 1:1.

Is it because HG is not God?

Was HG out of town in the beginning?

What was it?

If John 1:1 teaches the trinity like so many trinitarians claim it does, why are only word and God mentioned?

word and God are only two, not three.

Well maybe 2=3, why not? if 3=1 why not 2=3?

then of course since 3=1 and 3=2 then logically and mathematically, 1=2.

so then 3+3=2? or does it equal 4?

Your math is confusing me.

Wait, that is not math.

That is not math.

That is religion.

All rules of logic go out the window when religion is discussed.

Truth, not religion, sets people free. John 8:32

oatmeal

 

[oatmeal]

Oatmeal ... God is the ONE invisible spiritual creator.

God, as the invisible spiritual creator, is the ONE who plants and the ONE who waters.

Our invisible God came to earth APPEARING as a visible son in the form of a man ...His NAME is Emmanuel LORD Jesus. Through our LORD Jesus the invisible spiritual God personally planted the seed of our salvation... and the ONE God watered that seed (Jesus Christ in fleshly form)... who in turn sent the invisible divine SPIRIT of God into the world to water those who would become his future children in his kingdom. Thus the planting and the watering is how men are saved by the ONE God.

A statement like this was spoken:
"Because I am IN YOU ... you are IN ME ... ONE... as the Father and I are ONE.

The Plan:
The invisible God ... created a visible form for his personal use - first mentioned in Gen.1:26-27. This visible image was used by the invisible spiritual God to APPEAR unto men in the OT days as a super-natural heavenly type body - Exodus 24:9-11KJV. and He used the NAME of The LORD (KJEnglish) when appearing among men - Exodus 24:12 KJV.

But the invisible spiritual God had even another purpose for his personal created image. He was to finally manifest IT with mortal flesh as the ultimate divine sacrifice that would provide for the salvation of mankind. God created IT, and God planted IT within our condition ... and through IT God personally sent the spiritual divine WATER into the world unto us for our salvation. This was the plan ... the method God designed for his own reasons!

There is ONE God! HE is they - the Father the Son and the Holy Spirit as well.

Ok, ok you got me.

you are right.

let's open the Bible though just to be sure.

I Corinthians 3:8

Let's check who plants and who waters.

I Corinthians 3:6

OOOOPPPPPPSSSSSS!

Wow. someone did not read the Bible.

Paul planted, Apollos watered. God gave the increase.

It is time for you to read the Bible.

What more do I need to say?

We need to read scripture to check out what other people are telling us.

That is our responsibility as individuals.

II Timothy 2:15

Acts 17:11

Read and enjoy.

oatmeal