Can Man's Sinful Adamic Nature Be Rehabilitated?

[Caino]

Many believe that it can be. Some Catholics believe that by the grace of God working in a persons life and through the indwelling Holy Spirit, they can live a life of perfect obedience to God's Holy Law and be justified. This is why they are continually going to mass to be like Jesus.

If that were true, that we could become righteous by what we do, then Jesus lived and died in vain.

This is one reason why some people believe that Catholicism is anti-Christ. It does away with the substituionary and representative work that Jesus did in our name and on our behalf, that justifies us and reconciles us to God, 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19.

Christians are called to live their lives before God as sinners. Saved sinners. This is why Paul refered to himself as "The Chief of Sinners" 1 Timothy 1:15. Paul struggled with sin just like we do, "For the good that I would do, I don't do it, but the evil which I would not do, that I do" Romans 7:19. It is the Holy Spirit working in the Christians life that convicts him of sin. If you don't see yourself as a needy sinner, you may not have the Holy Spirit.

We are always pressing towards the "high calling" that is in Jesus Christ, but we never arrive, we always fall short of the righteousness of Christ. This is why Paul said, "As it is written, there is none righteous, no, not one" Romans 3:10.

The Gospel is the good news that Jesus came into the world to do for us that which we cannot do for ourselves. By his sinless life, he offers to God the Father a life of perfect obedience to his Holy Law. It is this life that was lived for our justification, Romans 3:26. That was not enough, something had to be done about our sins, "For he has made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him" 2 Corinthians 5:21.

When God accepted Jesus into heaven we were accepted in him. God now sees us as perfect and complete "In Christ" Colossians 2:10.

* Jesus never actually said he was a substitute, he said "go and sin no more" which means that we can rehabilitate. God is forgiving without the need of the blood of bunnies, birds or his Son.

* Jesus incarnate and lived for the cause of revelation, salvation and the achievement of all power and authority over his own creation.

 

[beloved57]

* Jesus never actually said he was a substitute, he said "go and sin no more" which means that we can rehabilitate. God is forgiving without the need of the blood of bunnies, birds or his Son.

* Jesus incarnate and lived for the cause of revelation, salvation and the achievement of all power and authority over his own creation.

You serve a different Christ from the One I know and serve !

 

[False Prophet]

No!
28 People did not think it was important to have a true knowledge of God. So God left them and allowed them to have their own worthless thinking and to do things they should not do. 29 They are filled with every kind of sin, evil, selfishness, and hatred. They are full of jealousy, murder, fighting, lying, and thinking the worst about each other. They gossip 30 and say evil things about each other. They hate God. They are rude and conceited and brag about themselves. They invent ways of doing evil. They do not obey their parents. 31 They are foolish, they do not keep their promises, and they show no kindness or mercy to others. 32 They know God’s law says that those who live like this should die. But they themselves not only continue to do these evil things, they applaud others who do them.
Rom 1:28

 

[Robert Pate]

* Jesus never actually said he was a substitute, he said "go and sin no more" which means that we can rehabilitate. God is forgiving without the need of the blood of bunnies, birds or his Son.

* Jesus incarnate and lived for the cause of revelation, salvation and the achievement of all power and authority over his own creation.

"There is no forgivness of sins without the shedding of blood" Hebrews 9:22.

 

[Robert Pate]

No!
28 People did not think it was important to have a true knowledge of God. So God left them and allowed them to have their own worthless thinking and to do things they should not do. 29 They are filled with every kind of sin, evil, selfishness, and hatred. They are full of jealousy, murder, fighting, lying, and thinking the worst about each other. They gossip 30 and say evil things about each other. They hate God. They are rude and conceited and brag about themselves. They invent ways of doing evil. They do not obey their parents. 31 They are foolish, they do not keep their promises, and they show no kindness or mercy to others. 32 They know God’s law says that those who live like this should die. But they themselves not only continue to do these evil things, they applaud others who do them.
Rom 1:28

If we don't seek the truth the devil will give us a lie to believe.

 

[serpentdove]

If we don't seek the truth the devil will give us a lie to believe.

Any will do (Mt 6:33, 2 Thess 2:11).

See:

Cult Toasters

 

[Robert Pate]

Any will do (Mt 6:33, 2 Thess 2:11).

See:

Cult Toasters

There are a lot of delusions out there.

 

[ttruscott]

The scripture says that we inherited Adam's sinful nature, Romans 5:12 also Romans 5:19.

Romans 5:12 says that due to Adam death came to all who had sinned, not his sin to those without sin. This is repeated in v18: Rom 5:18. Our sin was judged in Adam - HE did not create us to be sinners in Adam.

Romans 3:19
made: Strong's G2525 - kathistēmi
to set, place, put
to set one over a thing (in charge of it)
to appoint one to administer an office
to set down as, constitute, to declare, show to be
to constitute, to render, make, cause to be
to conduct or bring to a certain place
to show or exhibit one's self
come forward as

Therefore the blasphemy, "For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners," may be rather "For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were shown or exhibited themselves / came forward as sinners," in the sense that to prove to creation that you were a sinner, you would be born as a human in Adam and not as a cat or a whale.

But you have a great track record of using this verse to blaspheme GOD, why stop now?

God does not create sinners. We become sinners because of Adam who is our first Father and the federal head of the human race.

How sophist. By making us human in Adam in his sin instead of as individuals like HE did for Adam THEN it is obvious HE creates us to be sinners so all this is blasphemy and bogus, your magic incantation of federal headship aside - how very Calvin of you!

There are many, many scriptures that tell us we are sinners without works.

Of course there are but that is not proof we did not become sinners (for all have sinned) by our own free will decisions and not the blasphemy you support by mis-interpreting these verses.

 

[ttruscott]

Originally Posted by beloved57
God created Adam a sinner, that is why he sinned ! He created him weak in the flesh !

No he didn't.

Adam was created innocent. You have this perverted, twisted, idea of the nature and character of God.

Both wrong: Adam was sown into the world as a sinful person of the kingdom by the Son of Man so therefore was not created in the garden since the devil sows his own also and can't create. See the parable of the good but sinful seed and the tares.

But since the most holy GOD would never create evil nor be so unloving so as to create someone as evil, Adam was not created sinfully evil but chose to be a sinner by his free will in sheol before his conception as a human.

 

[KingdomRose]

I totally agree with Chair.

Its not a nature that got passed down. it was the sin snowball gained momentum, resulting in death.

Adam and Eve had a nature to sin before they sinned otherwise they would not have sinned in the first place. Nothing changed

In fact it was God unleashing Satan that caused them to sin. They were doing fine with their human nature till then.

Every person with free will and ignorance WILL sin, and hence will die. Its not in the nature, its in the logic.

Are you serious? You're saying that A&E were programmed to sin? No, not if we believe in a just, fair and loving God. He gave them free will, to choose to honor Him or not. They freely, knowingly, chose to disobey. They wanted independance. That is why the world is today in such a mess.

God did not "unleash" Satan on A&E. Jehovah allowed people and spirit persons to do what they wanted. Then they would see how their actions would result in serious consequences, if they chose to rebel against Him.

Not every person with free will will deliberately sin. Jesus proved that a perfect man could remain faithful. So did thousands of people in ancient times as well as the last 2,000 years....they remained faithful to the death and will receive a resurrection (and they weren't perfect).

No one who is IGNORANT will die. Those people will die who are IMFORMED and yet still practice sin. PRACTICE is the key word. Those who are, like all of us, under Adamic sin (inherited) are covered by Christ's blood, if we choose to accept that gift.

 

[KingdomRose]

No!
28 People did not think it was important to have a true knowledge of God. So God left them and allowed them to have their own worthless thinking and to do things they should not do. 29 They are filled with every kind of sin, evil, selfishness, and hatred. They are full of jealousy, murder, fighting, lying, and thinking the worst about each other. They gossip 30 and say evil things about each other. They hate God. They are rude and conceited and brag about themselves. They invent ways of doing evil. They do not obey their parents. 31 They are foolish, they do not keep their promises, and they show no kindness or mercy to others. 32 They know God’s law says that those who live like this should die. But they themselves not only continue to do these evil things, they applaud others who do them.
Rom 1:28

This is a meaningful scripture, though sadly it is generally ignored. Somehow they want to blame God for their selfishness and lusts, when it is clear that God wanted all humans to be His friends and listen to His instructions for their own benefit.

"I, Jehovah, am your God, the One teaching you to benefit yourself, the One causing you to tread in the way in which you should walk [if we listened to Him]. O if only you would actually pay attention to my commandments! Then your peace would become just like a river, and your righteousness like the waves of the sea." (Isaiah 48:17,18)

Does that sound like a God that would set His creations up to fail?

 

[KingdomRose]

Romans 5:12 says that due to Adam death came to all who had sinned, not his sin to those without sin. This is repeated in v18: Rom 5:18. Our sin was judged in Adam - HE did not create us to be sinners in Adam.



Kingdom Rose replies:

ttruscott, you didn't read the Scripture carefully enough, or you just don't want to see it. It says that through Adam sin came into the world. He originally sinned. He was the first deliberate sinner. That is how he lost his life, and he passed this sinfulness on to his offspring because he could no longer pass PERFECTION on. He was a dented pan, so to speak, and would pass that dent on to this children. He was a blemish on the original picture or document, if you will, and had to pass on that blemish to all copies of that document. So as a result, all of Adam's descendants would sin. They couldn't help it. We sin today when we don't want to. It's in our makeup as humans, whereas once it was not.....before Adam deliberately rebelled.

Because sin is INHERITED, Jesus willingly died in our places so that we wouldn't have to meet up with the consquences of sin. Deliberate sin is another issue. When, even though he knows that God does not countenance certain misdeeds & also that Christ died to save us from Adamic sin, someone goes ahead and PRACTICES sins, he has overstepped Christ's love and ransom atonement and will not be protected under that arrangement.

The Apostle John touched on the fact that there is a difference in sins....there are those "not leading to death," which would be the Adamic sins that are covered under Christ's arrangement, and there are "those leading to death," or, those that are PRACTICED by people who know the difference.

"If anyone sees his brother committing a sin not leading to death, he shall ask and God will for him give life to those who commit sin not leading to death. There IS a sin leading to death; I do not say that he should make request for this." (I John 5:16, NASB)

 

[Caino]

"There is no forgivness of sins without the shedding of blood" Hebrews 9:22.

That's Pagan teaching, it makes salvation theoretical rather than real change in the individual. The Jews thought they could please God with sacrifices instead of confessing sin and changing course.

Many religions practiced primitive human sacrifice, then they substituted animals.

 

[Caino]

You serve a different Christ from the One I know and serve !

There is only one Jesus, I believe his original gospel that he preached to the Jews, the gospel that the Jews would be preaching today from Jerusalem if they hadn't rejected that gospel, killed the Son of God thereby loosing their place in Gods plan.

Rejecting and killing Jesus was sinful not gospel.

 

[beloved57]

There is only one Jesus, I believe his original gospel that he preached to the Jews, the gospel that the Jews would be preaching today from Jerusalem if they hadn't rejected that gospel, killed the Son of God thereby loosing their place in Gods plan.

Rejecting and killing Jesus was sinful not gospel.

I don't know your jesus .

 

[Caino]

I don't know your jesus .

That's not uncommon. He said that he would be compelled to say to some "depart from me for I did not know you".

 

[ttruscott]

Romans 5:12 says that due to Adam death came to all who had sinned, not his sin to those without sin. This is repeated in v18: Rom 5:18. Our sin was judged in Adam - HE did not create us to be sinners in Adam.



Kingdom Rose replies:

ttruscott, you didn't read the Scripture carefully enough, or you just don't want to see it. It says that through Adam sin came into the world. He originally sinned. He was the first deliberate sinner.

This is bogus in that the serpent entered the garden with evil intent and Eve sinned before he did. You read more carefull without your sunday school biases eh? There is only one way in which sin could have entered the word with him and that is if he was a sinner when he entered the world.

And how does he being the first deliberate sinner on earth make it righteous for GOD to make me and thee sinners without our free will by putting us under Adam's sin?? A thousand books on this method's supposed righteousness is like the Emperor's new clothes. They are all theo-babble, high sounding but ultimately blasphemy. It is obvious that the inherited sin idea was a stop-gap knee jerk response to these verses forced on them by their pro we are created on earth bias.

 

[Caino]

The Persian theory of original sin is speculation. Humans are imperfect and capable of sin without the sin of Eve and Adam who were not the first humans anyway.

 

[Robert Pate]

The Persian theory of original sin is speculation. Humans are imperfect and capable of sin without the sin of Eve and Adam who were not the first humans anyway.

Adam is the federal head of the human race and is our first Father.

We are all related to Adam and have his genes and his blood coursing through our vein.

The Bible makes it clear that as Adam goes so go we, Romans 5:19.