Calvinism: You Must Already be Saved to Get Saved?

[Lon]

The bible says point blank that Christ atoned for the sins of the whole world and you don't believe it. [l/QUOTE]
Sure I do, 1 John 2:2

You're just an unbelieving goat masquerading as a believing sheep of Christ.

BE VERY careful judging another man's servant. You have become Lord and counselor of God. I realized a long time ago that those who agree or disagree with Calvinism may well be Christians. Those who agree or disagree with Arminians may well be Christians.

Your purpose is to deceive others because John Calvin not Christ is your ultimate authority.

Er, no.

Goats always have extra-biblical authorities and worship false prophets. It's sad but nothing new.

:nono: The BEST you could do is false teacher and the most of Christianity is against you. Even the RC still has Augustinians.

Read GotQuestions.org (Not a Calvinist website). They explain that Calvinists are Christians. See CARM also.

 

[Epoisses]

The bible says point blank that Christ atoned for the sins of the whole world and you don't believe it. [l/QUOTE]
Sure I do, 1 John 2:2

BE VERY careful judging another man's servant. You have become Lord and counselor of God. I realized a long time ago that those who agree or disagree with Calvinism may well be Christians. Those who agree or disagree with Arminians may well be Christians.


Er, no.


:nono: The BEST you could do is false teacher and the most of Christianity is against you. Even the RC still has Augustinians.

Read GotQuestions.org (Not a Calvinist website). They explain that Calvinists are Christians. See CARM also.

I'm not Arminian and I never was one day in my whole life. I attended the evangelical Lutheran church until my early twenties when I went off to work my way to heaven. I have since repented of my sins and realized that Luther was the true father of the Reformation. Calvinists are just some side-show freak religion to me. Wannabe pretenders to the grace of God.

 

[TulipBee]

I like your avatar. It is cute.

Stalker

 

[meshak]

Stalker

Hello TB.

calm down.

Jesus loves you.

 

[Lon]

I'm not Arminian and I never was one day in my whole life. I attended the evangelical Lutheran church until my early twenties when I went off to work my way to heaven. I have since repented of my sins and realized that Luther was the true father of the Reformation.

It might surprise you there are Evangelical Lutherans. I went to a liberal dead church too. As for Arminian, there was no mention of you being one this post.

Calvinists are just some side-show freak religion to me. Wannabe pretenders to the grace of God.

Your hang-up. Did you read the links? There are even Open Theists that disagree with you. It makes you a maverick. When you have the mind of Christ over the issue, let me know. We'll discuss together what pleases Him. Until then you can do all the accusation you like. I had thought there was only one accuser, though :think:

I'm not really understanding your reasoning for engaging me in conversation. :idunno:

 

[Lon]

So you believe you have to study history to follow Jesus.

Is this it?

Even the Bible is History, at least I received college credit for taking those classes.

I think, honestly, everyone benefits from Language Arts, History, and Science classes. I also think being well-read helps you understand your Bible. For instance, Geography helps you know what happened and where, as well as why those things happened certain ways. Studying Language Arts helps you read your Bible with better comprehension, etc.

You are a minimalist (just me and just my Bible). I know why you are a minimalist when it comes to scripture, but at least recognize study in other disciplines really would help you and I understand the Bible better. You don't have to buy or read commentaries etc. I think some minimalism is okay. A concordance would be a great help. I'd think you at least have one of those in the back of your Bible.

 

[God's Truth]

Even the Bible is History, at least I received college credit for taking those classes.

I think, honestly, everyone benefits from Language Arts, History, and Science classes. I also think being well-read helps you understand your Bible. For instance, Geography helps you know what happened and where, as well as why those things happened certain ways. Studying Language Arts helps you read your Bible with better comprehension, etc.

You are a minimalist (just me and just my Bible). I know why you are a minimalist when it comes to scripture, but at least recognize study in other disciplines really would help you and I understand the Bible better. You don't have to buy or read commentaries etc. I think some minimalism is okay. A concordance would be a great help. I'd think you at least have one of those in the back of your Bible.

God hides the truth from the wise and learned and reveals the truth to little children.

You will have to be ready to say all your studies at school mean nothing.

 

[meshak]

Even the Bible is History, at least I received college credit for taking those classes.

I think, honestly, everyone benefits from Language Arts, History, and Science classes. I also think being well-read helps you understand your Bible. For instance, Geography helps you know what happened and where, as well as why those things happened certain ways. Studying Language Arts helps you read your Bible with better comprehension, etc.

You are a minimalist (just me and just my Bible). I know why you are a minimalist when it comes to scripture, but at least recognize study in other disciplines really would help you and I understand the Bible better. You don't have to buy or read commentaries etc. I think some minimalism is okay. A concordance would be a great help. I'd think you at least have one of those in the back of your Bible.

You are still avoiding my question.

Just like I say you avoid me every time I mention Jesus' word and change the topic I am talking about.

You seem to be intimidated by Jesus' word.

You are intelligent with full of secular wisdom.

It is too bad that you don't know you can get excellent way to live spiritual life without secular education.

You are very much like freelight and EE. Three of you could be an excellent politicians.

 

[TulipBee]

Even the Bible is History, at least I received college credit for taking those classes.

I think, honestly, everyone benefits from Language Arts, History, and Science classes. I also think being well-read helps you understand your Bible. For instance, Geography helps you know what happened and where, as well as why those things happened certain ways. Studying Language Arts helps you read your Bible with better comprehension, etc.

You are a minimalist (just me and just my Bible). I know why you are a minimalist when it comes to scripture, but at least recognize study in other disciplines really would help you and I understand the Bible better. You don't have to buy or read commentaries etc. I think some minimalism is okay. A concordance would be a great help. I'd think you at least have one of those in the back of your Bible.

Russellites commentaries helps that zombie. Charles Taze Russell, says this about his 6 volume set called SCRIPTURE STUDIES,* "...[P]eople cannot see the divine plan in studying the Bible itself, but...if anyone lays the SCRIPTURE STUDIES aside...and goes to the Bible alone...he goes into darkness.* On the other hand, if he had merely read SCRIPTURE STUDIES...he would be in the light..."

*That's the problem

 

[God's Truth]

Russellites commentaries helps that zombie. Charles Taze Russell, says this about his 6 volume set called SCRIPTURE STUDIES,* "...[P]eople cannot see the divine plan in studying the Bible itself, but...if anyone lays the SCRIPTURE STUDIES aside...and goes to the Bible alone...he goes into darkness.* On the other hand, if he had merely read SCRIPTURE STUDIES...he would be in the light..."

*That's the problem

You went to the Calvinists.
That's the problem.

 

[Lon]

You went to the Calvinists.
That's the problem.

Really? Reread her quote: "...if anyone lays the SCRIPTURE STUDIES (Watchtower)aside...and goes to the Bible alone...he goes into darkness..."

Do you realize what you just placed yourself in league with?

 

[God's Truth]

Really? Reread her quote: "...if anyone lays the SCRIPTURE STUDIES (Watchtower)aside...and goes to the Bible alone...he goes into darkness..."

Do you realize what you just placed yourself in league with?

You went to the Calvinists. That is where you went wrong. If she went to the watchtower, then that is where she went wrong too. However, at least she knows that we have to obey to get saved.

 

[God's Truth]

We have the words of God in the Holy Bible.

We do not have to join a denomination to find what God says, for all can get a Bible.

We also do not need someone to explain the truth to us.

We have to search for God's Truth by getting Jesus' teachings from the Bible.

We find God by obeying Jesus' teachings.

Only those ensnared by the devil to preach falseness need help to bring them to the truth.

 

[James Dalton]

You went to the Calvinists. That is where you went wrong. If she went to the watchtower, then that is where she went wrong too. However, at least she knows that we have to obey to get saved.

For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they had known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. ~ 2 Peter 2:21

You say that this sect and that are bad. Because of Jesus, it is pretty impossible to not be saved. The verse above even provides hope to people who haven't been exposed to Jesus or the Bible.

People were taking about Taze earlier. The founder of the Watchtower society.

There are 3 main ways to lose our free gift of salvation. The worst and quickest way is to deny the strength of God's work through Jesus and the free gift of salvation. The second is to deny that Jesus is who he claimed to be. The third is to be cause a person to lose faith in Jesus.

Charles of the watchtower did all three. I don't know if you recognize who Jesus was, but I do know that your words about salvation would make Taze happy about salvation not being free. The Scripture Studies that were mentioned earlier are all about how salvation isn't free.

Have you put something like those Scripture Studies of the Watchtower into your mind and heart before?

 

[God's Truth]

For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they had known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. ~ 2 Peter 2:21

You say that this sect and that are bad. Because of Jesus, it is pretty impossible to not be saved. The verse above even provides hope to people who haven't been exposed to Jesus or the Bible.

People were taking about Taze earlier. The founder of the Watchtower society.

There are 3 main ways to lose our free gift of salvation. The worst and quickest way is to deny the strength of God's work through Jesus and the free gift of salvation. The second is to deny that Jesus is who he claimed to be. The third is to be cause a person to lose faith in Jesus.

Charles of the watchtower did all three. I don't know if you recognize who Jesus was, but I do know that your words about salvation would make Taze happy about salvation not being free. The Scripture Studies that were mentioned earlier are all about how salvation isn't free.

Have you put something like those Scripture Studies of the Watchtower into your mind and heart before?

I understand many different denominations, but that does not mean I agree with any of them, for they all teach some falseness, some more than others; however, we do not need any denomination to have the least amount of error, we need only the Word of God.

 

[Robert Pate]

We have the words of God in the Holy Bible.

We do not have to join a denomination to find what God says, for all can get a Bible.

We also do not need someone to explain the truth to us.

We have to search for God's Truth by getting Jesus' teachings from the Bible.

We find God by obeying Jesus' teachings.

Only those ensnared by the devil to preach falseness need help to bring them to the truth.

You make the Gospel of no effect when you add obedience to it.

Jesus said that he came into the world to save sinners. Sinners are people that have transgressed the law.

 

[Lon]

You went to the Calvinists. That is where you went wrong. If she went to the watchtower, then that is where she went wrong too. However, at least she knows that we have to obey to get saved.

:doh: Did you UNDERSTAND the quote???
"...if anyone lays the SCRIPTURE STUDIES (Watchtower)aside...and goes to the Bible alone...he goes into darkness..."
ANYONE, including you, just reading scripture alone, will "go into darkness..." And you'd compare these after that? :dizzy: I often pray you will listen to some of the godly women on TOL one day. That you'll just entertain for a moment even, that one of them may be right and you'll contemplate past your nose. I appreciate one trying to follow Christ, but" there is a way that seems right to a man..." Proverbs 14:12

 

[Lon]

Ok, I will rephrase my question but I know you will not answer.

So you believe you need more than Jesus' word to follow Jesus?

This is for endorsers of studying the history of orthodoxy.

No. Rather Galatians 6:6

 

[meshak]

No. Rather Galatians 6:6

Galatians 6:6 (NKJV)
6 Let him who is taught the word share in all good things with him who teaches.

You see, this comment is premise of your readers cannot understand unless you teach them.

Jesus' teaching is not complicated at all that they need your help to understand.

You are making His word complicated because you don't like to follow His instructions, it seems.

His teaching is not accepted by most people. So you change to acceptable to your denomination or your church.

 

[meshak]

:doh: Did you UNDERSTAND the quote???
"...if anyone lays the SCRIPTURE STUDIES (Watchtower)aside...and goes to the Bible alone...he goes into darkness..."
ANYONE, including you, just reading scripture alone, will "go into darkness..." And you'd compare these after that? :dizzy: I often pray you will listen to some of the godly women on TOL one day. That you'll just entertain for a moment even, that one of them may be right and you'll contemplate past your nose. I appreciate one trying to follow Christ, but" there is a way that seems right to a man..." Proverbs 14:12

You are the ones need to change your attitude of your faith. You make simple gospel complicated unnecessarily.

You have puffed up spirit, it is not of Jesus, friend.

You cannot even discern who is sincere Christian or not.

You measure people by their own or your doctrines.

You don't use Jesus' wisdom.