Calvinism: You Must Already be Saved to Get Saved?

beloved57

beloved57

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God's Truth said:
Why do people reject Jesus? Why do they believe in nothing, or in false gods/goddesses? The Bible tells us why people do not believe. The bible tells us why Jesus does not save many, and it is NOT for the reason the Calvinists say!

Those who don't believe and obey Jesus love darkness instead of light because their deeds are evil. Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed.

They are stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, and they always resist the Holy Ghost.

They are obstinate people, who walk in ways not good, pursuing their own imaginations--

They do evil in God's sight and chose what displeases Him.

That which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them. For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse. For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their speculations,

They exchange the truth of God for a lie.

They are self-seeking and they reject the truth and follow evil.

They do not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God.

They are hostile to God.

They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved.

They have been deceived by sin.

The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.

Their minds are on earthly things.

When anyone hears the message about the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what was sown in his heart.

There are those who hear the word of God but the devil comes and takes away the word from their hearts, so that they may not believe and be saved. And there are those who receive the word with joy when they hear it, but they have no root. They believe for a while, but in the time of testing they fall away. There are those who hear, but as they go on their way they are choked by life’s worries, riches and pleasures, and they do not mature.

They are stubborn and follow their own devices.

They are stubborn; the sinews of their neck are iron, their forehead are bronze.

They have stubborn and rebellious hearts; they have turned aside and gone away.

They do not listen or pay attention; instead, they follow the stubborn inclinations of their evil hearts. They go backward and not forward.

They have stubborn pride.

They refuse to give up their evil practices and stubborn ways.

They are rebellious people, deceitful children, children unwilling to listen to the LORD’s instruction.

Stubborn like a heifer. How then can the LORD pasture them like lambs in a meadow?

John 3:19, 20; Acts 7:51; Isaiah30:9; 65:2; 65:11,12; Romans 1:19-21; 1:25; 1:28; 2:8; 8:7; 2 Thessalonians 2:10; Hebrews 3:13; 2 Corinthians 4:3-4; Philippians 3:19; Matthew 13:19; Luke 8:11-16; Psalm 81:12; Isaiah 48:4; Jeremiah 5:23; 7:24; Leviticus 26:19; Judges 2:19; Hosea 4:16.
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Why do you reject Jesus?

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God's Truth

God's Truth

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NOWHERE ANYWHERE in the scriptures does it say God makes us not believe or made us without the compability.

Calvinism is based on lies.
 
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Crucible said:
And how exactly does this go against Calvinism?

This repeated thing has gotten old- unless you believe everyone is saved, than it supports Calvinism because it is admission that while the Atonement is enough to suffice the whole world, God has nevertheless not chosen the whole world.
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It means WHOEVER can be saved because Jesus died for ALL MEN and WANTS ALL to come to a knowledge of the truth.
 
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beloved57 said:
Why do you reject Jesus?

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You are the one who rejects Jesus.

I gave up false religions and family for God's Truth.

I gave up years of believing in falseness for God's Truth.

Could you humble yourself and give up all your many years of false beliefs and studies?

Could you humble yourself and ask for forgives for preaching wrong here on this site and many other sites?
 
serpentdove

serpentdove

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Shasta said:
John says Jesus died not only for our sins (in your terms the sins of the "elect") BUT ALSO for the sins of the "elect" This makes absolutely no sense.
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Right. If you want to be elect, :idunno: be elect. :listen: This isn't brain surgery.
 
Crucible

Crucible

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God's Truth said:
It means WHOEVER can be saved because Jesus died for ALL MEN and WANTS ALL to come to a knowledge of the truth.
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So God can fail those He draws?

Who chooses who?

You all make a conundrum of everything to suffice your free will. How much do you want to take from God just so you can have an illusion of control?
 
Nanja

Nanja

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Robert Pate said:
Faith and the Holy Spirit are only given to those who hear and believe the Gospel. You cannot be a Calvinist and believe the Gospel. They are like two opposites.

"So then faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God" which is the Gospel. Romans 10;17.
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Before a person can hear in order for him to believe, have Faith [a fruit of the Spirit Gal. 5:22], he must first be Born of God.

John 8:43, 47
Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word. 47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

1 John 5:4
For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.


So first, a person is Born of God and given Faith, then are they able to Hear and Believe God's Words which are Spiritual
1 Cor. 2:13.
 
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Crucible said:
So God can fail those He draws?

Who chooses who?

You all make a conundrum of everything to suffice your free will. How much do you want to take from God just so you can have an illusion of control?
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God WANTS ALL to be saved.
God draws all.
MANY ARE CALLED and FEW are CHOSEN.
God chooses those who believe and obey Him.
Jesus tells us what to do to get saved and to stay saved.
 
Nanja

Nanja

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God's Truth said:
Nanja, you are not careful enough when it comes to saying what the scriptures say. Try to be more careful.
You have just confused some things here, for according to the scriptures in the KJV the word ‘regenerate’ refers to a saved person. God does NOT save unbelievers. As for you saying a carnal person and a natural man---that is about people who only live to please their flesh. Not everyone only lives to please their flesh. Look around you. You must be able to reason.



There is no scripture anywhere in the Bible that says no one can obey and there is no scripture that says no one can believe. You also make a very false statement when you say it would not please God to obey, believe, and call on Him. You are going directly against His Word.

It is beyond absurd and to say what you did that God tells us to do something and doing it would cause Him grief or a nonchalant reaction. .



How many times do I have to give you the scriptures that prove we are not just flesh and that not everyone only just wants to please their flesh?

Here are the scriptures again that prove we have a spirit too.

Hebrews 12:9, Zechariah 12:1, and Malachi 2:15.



Again, no scripture says what you claim.
Show me the scripture that says God saves unbelievers and the scripture that says we are born without the ability to believe.
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It's you that is confused, or rather, is blinded 2 Cor. 4:3-4.

God's elect were reconciled to Him while being enemies and unbelievers Rom. 5:10

Unless a person is Born of God, nothing they do can please Him Rom. 8:8.

So all the works you do to get yourself saved is futile, and are as a polluted garment in God's sight Is. 64:6
 
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Shasta said:
Maybe...and I am just engaging in some wild speculation here but could

all = all
every = every
world = world
whosoever = whosoever

No that is much too simple. We need a Calvinist theologian to make the words mean something else.
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Right!lol Jesus says it is to little children to whom the truth is revealed...what is more simpler than just believing what is plainly written? The Calvinists come along with all their great education and want to convince us that the scriptures have another secret meaning.
However, the secret is revealed that we have to be humble and believe what is written.

The Calivinsts change the 'world' to say 'only the elect of the world', or 'the world of the elect'. Except, the Bible does not say that.
 
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Nanja said:
It's you that is confused, or rather, is blinded 2 Cor. 4:3-4.

God's elect were reconciled to Him while being enemies and unbelievers Rom. 5:10
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That scripture is about the ENEMY GENTILES.

The Gentiles were enemies because they did not get circumcised and come into the Covenant with God.

God saved them WHILE THEY were UNCIRCUMCISED and did NOT require it of them before He would save them.

Colossians 2:13 When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins,

Ephesians 2:11 Therefore remember that formerly you who are Gentiles in the flesh and called uncircumcised by the so-called circumcision (that done in the body by human hands)— 12 remember that at that time you were separate from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of the promise, without hope and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ.

Nanja said:
Unless a person is Born of God, nothing they do can please Him Rom. 8:8.
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You cannot be born of God unless you please Him.
That scripture is about those who ONLY WANT TO PLEASE THEIR FLESH. Not all only want to please their flesh.
Nanja said:
So all the works you do to get yourself saved is futile, and are as a polluted garment in God's sight Is. 64:6
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You were taught to misunderstand the filthy rag scripture.

How do you EVER get that obeying God is as a filthy rag?!

The Jews who had to do a righteous act of giving a sin offering, which included offering BLOOD, God did not like it that they would sin then give a sin offering and not really be sorry for their sins; that made the blood offering as a menstrual bloody rag offering. Not being truly sorry for the sin is what made the righteous act of sacrificing animals for their blood as a filthy rag.


Isaiah 64:6 All of us have become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous acts are like filthy rags; we all shrivel up like a leaf, and like the wind our sins sweep us away.


Our righteous act of FAITH in Jesus is a filthy rag if we do not OBEY HIM.
 
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