BRXII Battle talk
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Nineveh
Merely Christian
logos_x said:
: sings : here we go 'round the mulberry bush : / sings :
Like I said, PK thoroughly put this point to rest in the BR. If it doesn't mean forever when used in terms of hell, it doesn't anywhere else either. Personally, that one point by PK won the debate against you.
Nineveh
Merely Christian
logos_x said:
Paul said it was. Perhaps some folks really just don't want to be with God. Perhaps some folks really do just love themselves more than anything else. No matter how you feel about it.
Nope. Some go on to die the second death, while others go on to eternal life. Wait... sorry... eternal really isn't forever.. so... some go on to live with God for a while.
logos_x
New member
Nineveh said:
No Paul didn't.
According to Paul...death is the LAST enemy to be overthrown...and when death is overthrown nothing ends life.
Aion is an undetermined time. Age and ages.
The end of the ages has death destroyed, hell destroyed, disease and sin destroyed...and all the works of the enemy put away, and whosoever will is invited to drink of the water of life.
Everything is in Christ.
If that isn't universal salvation then it would be a very strange thing, indeed.
Nineveh
Merely Christian
logos_x said:
"For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse,..."
He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. He who overcomes shall not be hurt by the second death.
Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power
Rev 20 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Rev 21 But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.
I ain't even goin' there with you. If you want my replies on this point, I will point to PK's worthy responses in the BR. I don't think you would ignore me any less.
Sin? Immorality? InJustice? UnRighteousness?
There really must be a shadow of turning in Him. Sad.
According to Scriptures, saving those who refuse Christ is a strange thing. At least to Christ, John and Paul.
logos_x said:
Looks like you want it both ways. The word means what you want where you want. As I said, though, I ain't goin' down this rabbit trail with you. PK already bagged it.
logos_x
New member
Nineveh said:
Everyone is without excuse, Nin. That was Paul's point.
The last enemy that is to be overthrown is Death; for He will have put all things in subjection under His feet. And when He shall have declared that "All things are in subjection," it will be with the manifest exception of Him who has reduced them all to subjection to Him. But when the whole universe has been made subject to Him, then the Son Himself will also become subject to Him who has made the universe subject to Him, in order that GOD may be all in all.
(1Co 15:26-28)
The last enemy that is to be overthrown is Death; for He will have put all things in subjection under His feet. And when He shall have declared that "All things are in subjection," it will be with the manifest exception of Him who has reduced them all to subjection to Him. But when the whole universe has been made subject to Him, then the Son Himself will also become subject to Him who has made the universe subject to Him, in order that GOD may be all in all.
(1Co 15:26-28)
PK's responses were to make aion mean eternal wherever he thinks it should mean eternal. Too bad aion doesn't mean eternal at all.
None of those things remain, Nin.
I never said those who refuse Christ are saved.
The people who say it means eternal wherever they want it to are the ones that make the words mean what they want when they want. That you think that this is a rabbit trail is the source of our differences. PK didn't bag it when it comes to the meaning of aion and its adjectives...in fact, he ignored the facts I presented on this issue completely.
Nineveh said:
Well I said 'may well', not definitely....
Where does it say its forced? please explain,
what about the ones who obviously believe in Christ but are told to depart? I guess they believed the wrong doctrine? Or is it more to do with the fact that they didnt live out the Christian ethic in their lives - feeding the hungry - clothing the needy etc, things which Christ seemed to value immensley, I doubt that things are gonna be as black and white as you wish to paint them
God knows each persons heart and why they do and think what they do, noone else does
By believeing that God accomplishes his will?
That particular parable in question taught a lesson in how to treat others, the rich man treat his brother with no compassion or charity, now unless a man can speak while he's on fire then it isnt literal, it doesnt negate people preaching the word
Oh come on, has anyone ever said that people will not receive justice? And you havent answered, why would I take your word for it that God cant accomplish his own will? I've been on the other side of the fence with this stuff Nineveh, I spent two years in a pentecostal fire and brimstone church, now....try to stop making pointless attempts at condescension and explain to me in precise terms how God cant achieve his will
Maybe it isn't the fire that destroys death. I don't know. But, death could be a living being, so it's a possibility.red77 said:
The pastor is possibly right. I never said my take was more right. I said that it seems more just to me, personally. That's all I said.
Young's Literal Translation
No. God has His own free will. The Bible says so. As for who would want to reject it, you'd be surprised. However, at some point, even if they don't want to reject it, they won't be allowed to accept it, because they've rejected it for so long.
" Then Jesus told him, [Jesus]'Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.'[/Jesus]
-John 20:29
You're an idiot because you are completely misunderstood what I was saying. Either that, or you intentionally lied about, in order to discredit me. And that the ultimate in dishonesty. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, and assume you're just an idiot, instead of wicked enough to lie so maliciously.
PKevman
New member
logos_x said:
One question that has yet to be answered. Are the Greek scholars who translated the many fine English versions of the Bible (such as the NKJV, KJV, NAS, NIV, etc....) UNQUALIFIED to translate Greek, but Universalist "scholars" that are quoted on Tentmaker.com are MORE qualified?
And in your argument in the debate you didn't say it didn't mean eternal anywhere. You have just changed your position from what was posted in the debate.....
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