way 2 go
Well-known member
Those two verses alone prove that those who were under the law did not have to do works to be saved.
was David uncircumcised ?
Those two verses alone prove that those who were under the law did not have to do works to be saved.
Read psalm 69.
No, what is funny is how you want nothing to do with the verses which I quoted that prove that those who lived under the law were saved by faith alone and enjoyed eternal security.
was David uncircumcised ?
You showed no such thing. Was Abraham not justified when he offered up his son Isaac?
:nono:Since those who lived under the law were saved by grace through faith it is certain that works played no part in their salvation.
In regard to what is said about Abraham in the book of James were can see that what is under discussion is what one man may know about another man's faith:
" Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works" (James 2:18).
Sir Robert Anderson, the father of systemized Mid Acts Dispensationalism, had the following to say about Abraham:
"Paul's Epistle (Romans) unfolds the mind and purposes of God, revealing His righteousness and wrath. The Epistle of James addresses men upon their own ground. The one deals with justification as between the sinner and God, the other as between man and man. In the one, therefore, the word is, 'To him that worketh not, but believeth'. In the other it is, 'What is the profit if a man say he hath faith, and have not works?' Not 'If a man have faith', but 'If a man say he hath faith' proving that, in the case supposed, the individual is not dealing with God, but arguing the matter with his brethren. God, who searches the heart, does not need to judge by works, which are but the outward manifestation of faith within; but man can judge only by appearances...He (Abraham) was justified by faith when judged by God, for God knows the heart. He was justified by works when judged by his fellow men, for man can only read the life " [emphasis added] (Anderson, The Gospel and Its Ministry, [Kregel Publications, 1978], pp.160-161).
Originally Posted by way 2 go View Post
was David uncircumcised ?
circumcision is a workOf course not!
But that does nothing to disprove the fact that he received the imputed righteousnessof God APART from works:
:nono:
sorry “justification before men” is false
circumcision is a work
So you think thay even though someone is saved by grace through faith they must also add "works" in order to be saved?
Luk 16:14 The Pharisees, who were lovers of money, heard all these things, and they ridiculed him.
" And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God" (Lk.16:15).
not now but back then ,yesBut being circumcized has nothing to do with getting saved:
"Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works, Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered. Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin. Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also?" (Ro.4:6-9).
do you think every Jew had this righteousness imputed to them?
Originally Posted by way 2 go
do you think every Jew had this righteousness imputed to them?
Of course not every one of them but instead all of those who believed:
.
when did Saul have righteousness imputed to him ?
1Sa_16:14 Now the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and a harmful spirit from the LORD tormented him.
You prove that you are going to believe what you want no matter what the Scriptures say.
"Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works, Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered. Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin. Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also?" (Ro.4:6-9).
if you still continue to insist that the circumcision must do works in order to be saved then you do not even know what "blessing" is spoken of in this passage.
And I asked you the following question:
So you think thay even though someone is saved by grace through faith they must also add "works" in order to be saved?
To this question you correctly answered "no."
In this verse we can see that those under the law were saved by grace through faith:
" Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all" (Ro.4:16).
Even after seeing this verse you continue to throw your reason to the wind and insist that those under the law could not be saved without keeping the law.
And here James tells us exactly how those under the law were saved:
"Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures" (James 1:18).
And that matches what Peter wrote here:
"Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God... And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you" (1 Pet.1:23,25).
The Lord Jesus said the following to the Jews who lived under the Law:
"Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life" (Jn.5:24).
Those under the law and believed received eternal life and they will not be judged. But according to you those under the Law were not saved by faith alone because they had to do the works of the law to be saved.
All I can do is point out these truths to you. Whether you believe them or not is up to you.
no one could be saved apart from Grace at any time.
your position of works were not necessary under the law is untenable.
Are you a Calvinist now?I've shown plenty of things that differ, but I can't make you see something you refuse to.
God forgave the sin/sins debt nearly 2000 years before we were ever born when God was in Christ reconciling the world unto Himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them (2 Corinthians 5:19 KJV). I didn't "repent" of anything. I trusted the Lord after hearing and believing the word of truth, the gospel of my salvation (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV, Ephesians 1:13-14 KJV. The point stands. Our pattern for forgiving one another is Ephesians 4:32 KJV.
2 Timothy 2:15 KJV
No. When did Christ die for your sins? When was He delivered for your offences?Are you a Calvinist now?
I know what repent means. I did not "change my mind".And "repent" means to change one's mind, so you did repent.
You want the specific date and time?No. When did Christ die for your sins? When was He delivered for your offences?
Your mind wasn't changed regarding Christ?I know what repent means. I did not "change my mind".
And thus your mind was changed from unbelief to belief [trust].I trusted the Lord after hearing and believing the word of truth, the gospel of my salvation. That is how we are saved and sealed.
And?Ephesians 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.
I am now a fellowheir and of the same Body with those who first trusted in Christ (Ephesians 1:12 KJV beginning with Paul 1 Timothy 1:16 KJV) and partaker of His promise in Christ by the gospel.
Ephesians 3:6 KJV That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:
I join Paul in his endevour to make all men see the fellowship of the mystery.
Ephesians 3:9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:
Ephesians 3:10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,
Ephesians 3:11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:
Ephesians 3:12 In whom we have boldness and access with confidence by the faith of him.
I asked you when Christ died for your sins and when was He delivered for your offences. Simple questions with a ball park answer of "about 2000 years ago" would have sufficed. Why couldn't you answer? Will your open theism not allow you to? Were your sins non existent when Christ died for them? Instead you said, "when I received the gift when I repented" so I'll go with that...You want the specific date and time?
I received the gift when I repented.
You guys really are stuck on the word repent. You love to tell people what to do. lolYour mind wasn't changed regarding Christ?
And thus your mind was changed from unbelief to belief [trust].
The fellowship of the mystery is not in "The Plot" either. Which is really the topic of this thread...And?
That's not true. We were forgiven when we were quickened together with Him.And He forgave us when we repented.
Christ is not crawling back up on that cross to die for men's sins every single time someone places their trust in Him.