Biological Taxonomy - Kinds vs. Species (Linnaean taxonomy)

[6days]

No...I don't think you followed.

I said that anything which begins to exist has a cause. The No...I don't think you followed.


I said that anything which begins to exist has a cause. The only logical explanation for the evidence is that something uncaused and that has existed throughout eternity... caused everything. The Creator God of the Bible is the cause.

And one could say that a process causing the Big Bang existed throughout eternity....

Exactly....You got it.*

Logic tells us that there is something which existed uncaused throughout eternity.*

And, I'm saying that the evidence is that the cause wasthe all powerful Creator God of the Bible.

The Richard Dawkins of his day, atheist Anthony Flew publicly debated against an omniscient, omnipotent Creator. But Flew said he had to follow the evidence where it lead. He eventually came to the realization that the evidence pointed towards the work of intelligence. Although, Flew apparently did not know who the intelligence was....we can know Him.*

 

[Greg Jennings]

Exactly....You got it.*

Logic tells us that there is something which existed uncaused throughout eternity.*

And, I'm saying that the evidence is that the cause wasthe all powerful Creator God of the Bible.

The Richard Dawkins of his day, atheist Anthony Flew publicly debated against an omniscient, omnipotent Creator. But Flew said he had to follow the evidence where it lead. He eventually came to the realization that the evidence pointed towards the work of intelligence. Although, Flew apparently did not know who the intelligence was....we can know Him.*

Do you have any evidence or a logical proof that says God must be the uncaused cause? And that we aren't just one of a multitude of universes that exist currently?

 

[6days]

Jesus's teachings are something that we all can learn from in terms of ethical treatment...

Jesus claimed to be pre-existent.

He claimed to rise from the grave.

He claimed equality with God.

He accepted worship.

Jesus forgave people who had not sinned against him as a human, but had sinned against God.

Jesus claimed to be the only way to God.


Yes...we can learn from His teachings. Jesus was our Creator. ..He is our Savior.

 

[Greg Jennings]

Jesus claimed to be pre-existent.

He claimed to rise from the grave.

He claimed equality with God.

He accepted worship.

Jesus forgave people who had not sinned against him as a human, but had sinned against God.

Jesus claimed to be the only way to God.


Yes...we can learn from His teachings. Jesus was our Creator. ..He is our Savior.

Yes that is what Christians can take from him. But everyone can learn from such teachings as "love your neighbor as yourself" and "he who is without sin cast the first stone" and of course the story of the Good Samaritan. You don't have to be a Christian or even religious to take lessons from those

 

[George Affleck]

Not quite, George. We "evolutionists" have never asserted that the only possible explanation for the beginning of the universe and everything is the Big Bang. We accept that we don't and might never know the actual story. On the other hand your fundamentalist friends here have been constantly asserting that the only "logical" or "possible" explanation for the beginning of the universe is an uncaused cause that they attribute to bring God. If this is true then you should be able to show through a logical proof that God is indeed the only option. Therefore I and others here are asking for just that.

If the universe did not begin to exist at some time in the past, then the present moment could never arrive.
Therefore, the universe began to exist.
If the universe began to exist, something else must have caused its existence.
Therefore the universe was caused by something else.
If something else caused the universe, which is subject to time, to come into existence, that "something else" must be outside of and independent of time and possess infinite abilities.
That which is infinite is uncaused.

 

[Stripe]

You are more egg shaped than the earth.

:rotfl:

You haven't proved this statement yet.

It is a premise. Premises do not need to be proved.

No wonder you fail so hard at conversations.

My original question to you was why, if the Muslim Koran correctly identified the Earth's shape whereas the Bible never did, do you not put stock in the Koran as a book of faith?

1. The Earth isn't egg-shaped, as your link described. You even posted the paragraph that said it is extremely spherical.

2. The Koran doesn't describe the Earth any more accurately than the Bible.

 

[6days]

Logic tells us that there is something which existed uncaused throughout eternity.

And, I'm saying that the evidence is that the cause wasthe all powerful Creator God of the Bible.

The Richard Dawkins of his day, atheist Anthony Flew publicly debated against an omniscient, omnipotent Creator. But Flew said he had to follow the evidence where it lead. He eventually came to the realization that the evidence pointed towards the work of intelligence. Although, Flew apparently did not know who the intelligence was....we can know Him.

Do you have any evidence or a logical proof that says God must be the uncaused cause? And that we aren't just one of a multitude of universes that exist currently?

Multiverse? That is dodging the issue that everything which begins to exist has a cause.*


And, as far as evidence that the uncaused cause is the God of the Bible.*

Well..... as Anthony Flew came to realize, there did seem to be an extremely powerful intelligent source that was behind everything. If you accept that, then the next step is investigating just who or what is that source.*

 

[Greg Jennings]

If the universe did not begin to exist at some time in the past, then the present moment could never arrive.
Therefore, the universe began to exist.
If the universe began to exist, something else must have caused its existence.
Therefore the universe was caused by something else.
If something else caused the universe, which is subject to time, to come into existence, that "something else" must be outside of and independent of time and possess infinite abilities.
That which is infinite is uncaused.

Correct. Science doesn't claim to absolutely know what the cause of this universe was. Evidence points towards the Big Bang, but who knows what caused that?

On the other hand, several creationists here have asserted the the uncaused cause must be God. That's simply not true.

 

[Jose Fly]

as Anthony Flew came to realize, there did seem to be an extremely powerful intelligent source that was behind everything.

If Flew's conversion is compelling, aren't accounts of people deconverting from Christianity equally compelling?

Or are you engaging in the fallacy of special pleading?

 

[Greg Jennings]

Multiverse? That is dodging the issue that everything which begins to exist has a cause.*

No 6days, it is yet another possible explanation for the origin of this universe.

And, as far as evidence that the uncaused cause is the God of the Bible.*

Unfortunately, we both know that textual evidence that cannot be scientifically verified isn't tangible, real-world evidence. What you have isn't evidence, it's philosophy. And that's fine, but you can't call it evidence and have it magically be evidence

Well..... as Anthony Flew came to realize, there did seem to be an extremely powerful intelligent source that was behind everything. If you accept that, then the next step is investigating just who or what is that source.*

That's one of the leading theories, even among those who don't believe in a god. There is a theory that the universe we live in is a simulation inside of a sentient being's supercomputer so complex and advanced that we can't fathom the technology yet. So, even if an intelligent being is the right answer (which we can by no means check off as a fact) then that doesn't necessarily mean it's God. At least not in the way that you see him

 

[6days]

Correct. Science doesn't claim to absolutely know what the cause of this universe was. Evidence points towards the Big Bang, but who knows what caused that? .

I know what caused everything...
"In the beginning, God..."

 

[Greg Jennings]

No wonder you fail so hard at conversations.
1. The Earth isn't egg-shaped, as your link described. You even posted the paragraph that said it is extremely spherical.

Hmm. I guess you don't see the difference between "extremely spherical" and "totally round"? And yes, it is egg or pear shaped ever so slightly, just as my link described.

2. The Koran doesn't describe the Earth any more accurately than the Bible.

So do you think that describing a circle with a dome over the top (a hemisphere) is a better description than egg-shaped?

If I fail at conversations, then you're failing a lot harder

 

[Greg Jennings]

I know what caused everything...
"In the beginning, God..."

Ok 6days. I need you to tell me if you understand the difference between real-world evidence and words in a 4000 year old unverifiable book? There's nothing wrong with believing what you do, but there is a problem when you assert that your belief is evidence. Understand?

Even if the Bible was tangible evidence, which it isn't, you have yet to tell me how it is a better piece of evidence than the Koran which describes the Earth much more accurately. Care to?

 

[George Affleck]

Correct. Science doesn't claim to absolutely know what the cause of this universe was. Evidence points towards the Big Bang, but who knows what caused that?

On the other hand, several creationists here have asserted the the uncaused cause must be God. That's simply not true.

So what do you call that which is infinite, outside of time, and uncaused?

Fred?

 

[alwight]

So what do you call that which is infinite, outside of time, and uncaused?

Fred?

An unknown.

 

[George Affleck]

An unknown.

And all we are saying is that He can be known; which brings us full circle to why this conversation exists.

 

[Greg Jennings]

So what do you call that which is infinite, outside of time, and uncaused?

Fred?

An untestable conjecture. It's philosophy.


Though I very much like Fred

 

[alwight]

And all we are saying is that He can be known; which brings us full circle to why this conversation exists.

Then I can only presume that He can only become known to some people but not others.

 

[George Affleck]

Then I can only presume that He can only become known to some people but not others.

Correct

 

[George Affleck]

An untestable conjecture. It's philosophy.

And all this time I thought you were calling for logic!