BATTLE TALK ~ BRX (rounds 1 thru 3)

[kmoney]

Kmoney
I thought that she claims to be a "teacher", not a pastor... Or am I wrong?

In any case, as per my gleanings on the topic, “women pastors” are generally in error and operating against the teachings from scripture, “unless” the men in the congregation cannot do a better job of leading the church.

I think “usurping authority” can not happen when the men are not in authority. But I assume that is a reasonable exception allowed by scripture as we had a few female church planters in scripture that seemed prominent in early churches.

My understanding is based upon the assumption that when our current dispensation started, there were very few men qualified to teach and preach the revelation for this particular dispensation until the message got out and was sufficiently studied, thus very early on, some women were prominent in early church startups (women leaders in church).

Make sense?

Well, I don't exactly agree. I have no problem with women being pastors/teachers, whatever you want to call them. What scripture do you use to backup your view? I assume that 1Cor 14 is part of what you use. From what I've heard on the subject there is background information that needs to be taken into account for that passage.

 

[1Way]

I haven’t yet checked but I would be very surprised if she is not an ordained minister.

DearDelmar,
Right
Minister is broad term... In my remark to Chance about symbolism verses substance, I imply that she is functionally at least as high up as a pastor in terms of leading believers what to believe.

It doesn't matter if you are a “joker” or “musician” or “magician” teaching false doctrine on national TV with literally millions of susceptible viewers, or if you are an “ordained” pastor/minister, leading the body of Christ toward “falling from the grace of God” by mixing the dispensation of Law with the dispensation of Grace is a very bad situation.

Thanks for helping me clarify.

 

[1Way]

Kmoney
I use the passages that say that church leadership should be the h_ _ _ _ _d of one w_ _ e, for starters...
:noway: :guitar:
And you?

 

[Nathon Detroit]

All good points!

That being said, lets get back on topic.

 

[Nathon Detroit]

Kmoney
I use the passages that say that church leadership should be the h_ _ _ _ _d of one w_ _ e, for starters...
:noway: :guitar:
And you?

:rotfl:

 

[kmoney]

All good points!

That being said, lets get back on topic.

my bad....

 

[kmoney]

Kmoney
I use the passages that say that church leadership should be the h_ _ _ _ _d of one w_ _ e, for starters...
:noway: :guitar:
And you?

well, guess we can't continue in this thread, if there is another thread to keep discussing let me know....

and I don't know what your "w_ _e" is supposed to be....

 

[chance]

To the point
Do you think that God through Paul’s writings (our one Apostle) teach us that women are supposed to be leading (national, and likely international) teachers promoting Charasmatic Tom Fullery and thus contradicting the teachings for the dispensation of the Grace of God which we live in today?

Who is Tom Fuller and what does he have to do with charismatic teaching?? Paul tells us that God gifts members of the Body and that none of these gifts depend upon having a johnson or not from what I have read. Paul does tell us that in the Body the distinction between man and woman is broken down (Gal 3:28).

I see Clete stating two main things.

1. There is a problem when women overstep their roles and do not keep their place concerning doctrinal leadership (although my understanding is that she is a teacher, not a pastor, but symbolism does not trump substance). At the same time, I’d pretty much classify her with about 99.9% of the pastors and scholars and teachers as well. She is not alone.

   Yes, you and I, as Grace Believers and Open Theists, we ALREADY have a problem with 99.9% of pastors out there. I see that point. But I also commend anyone that has the drive and boldness to get out there and work hard to build a big ministry that effects a lot of people for God. Hey, did you know that Greg Boyd came to faith in Christ through a gal's preaching at a church service?
   
   [QUOTE}[*]Regardless of her role issues, she apparently contradicts the distinctive message given to us through Paul for this current dispensation via the so-called charismatic activity of the HS. Even is she is “mildly” charismatic, as in mixing the teachings for the previous dispensation in with our current one, the result is drastic and sad.
   
   If not, what then?

   
   So she is in the mix with the other 99.9% of pastors you come into contact with. Whether a person is a man or woman is the least of our concerns. Our main concerns are doctrine and whether a person loves God or not. Not whether or not we can date em and take home to meet mom and dad.

 

[kmoney]

well, guess we can't continue in this thread, if there is another thread to keep discussing let me know....

and I don't know what your "w_ _e" is supposed to be....

oh wait, i just got it, WOW.... :doh: haha

 

[1Way]

Chuckles... Ok, I'll start another thread just for this tangent.

BRB (look here for the thread link)

How do you do the links here??? It's all different. How about this.

http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=831157#post831157

 

[chance]

Yeah, let's get back on topic now. Suffice it to say, Sam is checking out your package before he decides to listen to you preach or teach and I find that funny, yet sad and also harming, nay, staining his argument that God ordained all of history. The female apostle Junia and I implore Sam to not check a good pastors genitals

 

[1Way]

Chance,
Hmmm, it was probably Tom "Foolery", I don't stay up to date and some rarely used sayings, plus my spelling is natoriusly badd.

Scripture says the "Husband of one Wife" is the teaching.

However, I go a step further (now check me on this, I could be wrong) and connect the male human with the husband aspect of that teaching, and the female as not being the husband.

Lets go to another thread since this is off topic, but interesting. See my last post in a few minuets for a new thread, unless someone else already made one. Thanks.

 

[Montana]

So, because you know about "glory holes" and all the perverted stuff in the homosexual bathhouses, you are culpable for such inventions? It is obviously floating around in your head alot, and is therefore impossible to separate from you as a person, so you must be guilty.

Or does your logic only apply when it is convenient for your doctrine? You can be separated from the stuff in your head but God cannot. You can be tempted without it or the knowledge the temptation comes from being sin, but God cannot even know that the sin exists without being guilty.

Don W., I never said that we cannot know about other people’s sins without being guilty them ourselves. I use the example of homosexuality because I can say that even though I know about such things, I am not guilty of them. But if you and I were sitting around the on playground as little boys, neither of us with any knowledge of such behavior, and I started suggesting, “You know Don W., why not this behavior or why not that behavior?”, you’d look at me in sock and say, “Shut up you perv!” And you would be right. Because having no knowledge of such thing, they would have come out of my own sinful mind. God does not have a sinful mind. He is holy, righteous and just. He does not deal with such matters as part of His goodness. He deals with them as part of our sinfulness. Our sinfulness was not with Him in eternity past. I think God really did get educated as to sin. God “repented that he made man”because He learned something that changed his mind.

 

[godrulz]

So, you're going to take someone's degrading statement about an effective pastor and make it the post of the day?

Joyce had an interesting, difficult background. She has a relatively effective prison ministry. I do not think she is a local church pastor. Like other leaders, we can pick the bones out without throwing the chicken out.

Speaking of chickens, there have been times God has mightily used women in the Bible or in the far North, for example, because the men would not rise to the task.

 

[godrulz]

The Bible says that women should be silent.
If you got a problem with that then you got a problem with the Bible.
You may have other problems as well.

Wise man...er...fool...do you have a clue what the context and historical background of that phrase is?

The Bible also does not say that God helps them who help themselves.

 

[Clete]

I read Lamerson's second posting and I gotta say.......Lamerson is about to get a big time lesson in historical theology AND Scriptural interpretation from Bob that he has never heard before hanging around all of those Calvinists his entire life.

In fact, let me give links to some great evidence for Bob's claims in this post so he and anyone else can check out the evidence.

Concerning the historical evidence that Greek pagan philosophy has had a huge impact on the traditional understanding of the doctrine of God, read this article on Augustine's philosophical beliefs and upbringing and how it influenced his reading of Scripture. What Augustine wrote is important since his works were unarguably the biggest influence on church teaching for a long, long time and are still held in high regard by many today. The article detailing Augustine's Greek pagan philosophy and how it controlled his interpretation of Scripture is titled Can God Change Or Be Influenced By Anything?

I noticed Lamerson also brought up Is 40-48. As well as 1 out of 3 passages in 1 Sam 15 that refer to God repenting (he picked the one that says God will not repent regarding a matter and totally ignored the other two that say that He does repent and will not do what He said) That poor old man. The things he will learn from Bob will blow his mind. Can't wait to read Bob's response!

You may already know this but the writer of that article is Bob Hill; Bob Enyart's former pastor and the one who ordained him into the pastorate.

 

[fool]

Wise man...er...fool...do you have a clue what the context and historical background of that phrase is?

The Bible also does not say that God helps them who help themselves.

Context? :think:
Historical background? :think:
You mean it's subjective? :shocked:
You mean that it could mean different things depending on time-place?:shocked:
What are we gonna do?

 

[CRASH]

I guess the name fits...

Psalms 14 1. The fool has said in his heart, "There is no God."
1. The fool has said in his heart, "There is no God."

 

[fool]

I guess the name fits...

Psalms 14 1. The fool has said in his heart, "There is no God."
1. The fool has said in his heart, "There is no God."

1 Corinthians:3,18

 

[Turbo]

Yeah, let's get back on topic now. Suffice it to say, Sam is checking out your package before he decides to listen to you preach or teach and I find that funny, yet sad and also harming, nay, staining his argument that God ordained all of history. The female apostle Junia and I implore Sam to not check a good pastors genitals

:sigh: I'm disappointed that you didn't take the hint about your crass remarks. And now you're directing them at our guest. Three days off for you.