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Body part
What makes you say that?
What is "the OT Nation of Israel"?
What is "the body of Christ"?
Are you Going to Heaven?
- Thread starter ABMF
- Start date
What is "the OT Nation of Israel"?
What is "the body of Christ"?
God has turned away from Israel during the Church Age, but will return to Israel after the end of the Church Age which will culminate with the rapture.
We see the division between God's dealing with the Jews for 69 weeks, a gap representing His dealing with the Church, and then His dealing with the Jews for the seventieth week in Daniel 9.
Daniel 9
24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
God has set aside the Jews for now, but will restore them again after the rapture of the Church. According to Romans 11 the Jews are enemies of Christians for now for the sake of the Church, but they are still God's people and will be restored in the end. I do not believe James and the Jews he was writing to were considered by God and Christians to be enemies of the church at the time of his writing, but were instead saved Jews and part of the Church.
Romans 11
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes.
Right Divider
Body part
There is no such thing as "the Church Age". Israel and the body of Christ had some overlap. God did NOT abandon BELIEVING Israel.
That's all wonderful, but does not fix your problem with not understanding the division between the epistles of Paul and the epistles of the circumcision apostles... i.e., the TWELVE apostles that will sit in TWELVE thrones judging the TWELVE tribes of Israel.
Then you are not the person that James was writing to. Simple as that:
James, a bondservant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, To the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad: Greetings. - James 1:1 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=James1:1&version=NKJV
In other words, NOT YOU!
Given to, to read, study and obey.
Not WRITTEN TO!
HUGE difference!
Jews. "To the twelve tribes..."
Whatever that means....
We cannot explain the division between the 69 weeks and the seventieth week of Daniel without the gap filled by the Christian Church, apart from the Jewish laws, traditions, customs, and observances, which do not pertain to the Church. The Jew, Paul, rebuked the Jew, Peter, for trying to continue the OT Jewish customs, traditions and laws which do not pertain to the Church.
Was the Book of James written to saved Jewish members of the Church or just to Jews? Are there explanations for how God supposedly speaks to the saved Jews separately with different instructions than He speaks to saved Gentiles?
Right Divider
Body part
The body of Christ was a mystery that is explained ONLY by the apostle Paul.
That is NOT exactly what happened. But I can see that your bias would lead you to think that.
Right Divider
Body part
TWELVE tribes.... it's not too complicated.
Yes, it's called God's dispensations. God dispenses His grace and His instructions differently to different people at different times.
Sure we can.
It's called God cutting off unbelieving Israel and putting His plan for them on hold.
Paul, as the first member of the Body of Christ, in which there is no longer a distinction between Jew and Gentile, rebuked Peter because he was being a hypocrite.
I don't see any Biblical instructions which teach us we should separate instructions to NT Jewish Christians from instructions to NT Gentile Christians. None.
You shouldn't use fallacies as the basis for your doctrine.
This is an argument from incredulity.
Be diligent to present yourself approved to God, a worker who does not need to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. - 2 Timothy 2:15 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2Timothy2:15&version=NKJV
Right Divider
Body part
That's because you have blinders on.
The body of Christ has no covenant's, new or otherwise.
The body of Christ is not Israel and Israel is not the body of Christ.
I need to return
ok doser
lifeguard at the cement pond
The Bible does show a connection between Christians and Jews which cannot be denied or broken.
Romans 11:28
As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes.
Romans 1:16
For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek
Romans 2
27 And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law?
28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
Right Divider
Body part
The reason that you are confused is extremely simple. You ignore God's differing dispensations.
- In the past, God separated Israel from the Gentiles treating each differently. (NOTE: that does NOT mean that Gentiles could not join WITH Israel to receive God's blessings).
- Presently, (and beginning with Paul) God is not treating Israel as His special people. Therefore, AT THE PRESENT TIME, there is no distinction between Jews and Greeks.
- In the FUTURE, God will resume His plans to and through Israel.
Again, we are in #2 here and NOT #1 or #3.
Note regarding Romans 1:16. That is NOT talking about the present dispensation ALONE, but is talking about historical treatments of different people.
Note regarding Romans 2. Paul is talking about actual Jews in that passage. Paul's point is that God treats unbelieving Jew as though they are gentiles.
Note also that "circumcision of the heart" is NOT something new.
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Wish you were Jesus.