Are you Going to Heaven?

[OZOS]

It means sinners must be willing to give up everything to get saved or they will not be granted forgiveness.

I don't believe acts of penance or procedures of repentance as human works of contrition will be judged by God as worthy of forgiveness and salvation. But nobody who refuses to give up sin, who refuses to turn away from sin, who does not demonstrate before God a desire to exchange sin for God's righteousness, and to be delivered from the pleasures of sin in his life can get saved.

Proverbs 28:13. He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but who confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy.

What did the thief on the cross give up?

Repentance is not about turning from sin to be saved. Repentance is turning to Jesus who died for our sins. Repenting from sins, for salvation, is a false gospel. It's blasphemous.

 

[marke]

Okay, but I'm just asking how you arrived at the idea that someone must "repent from his sins" to be saved? I agree that people are to turn to God for salvation, but the phrase "repent from sins" is something entirely different. I think most people who hear that will think they have to do something about sin.

I will go further to explain what I really believe about what is required to receive forgiveness from Jesus for sins and required to receive a new life which makes remission of sins in Christians real. All truth boils down to the fact that the Holy Spirit comes to everyone born into the world (John 1:9), pointing sinners to Jesus as Lord and Savior, and convicting sinners of sins and the need for forgiveness. Sinners are already awaiting sentencing for sins by the time the Holy Spirit comes to give them understanding of what is required of them to be born again. It is at that point of Holy Spirit enlightenment where the final sentencing of sinners to hell is decided. John 1 tells us that those who receive the light will be given the power to become the sons of God for believing on Jesus. Those who reject the light will be condemned. John 3 defines condemnation as rejecting the light as opposed to receiving and believing the light. People don't go to hell in the dark.

Romans 1 tells us that sinners who clearly understand what God shows them but still reject the light no longer have any excuse for not seeking forgiveness and salvation. In Mark 3 Jesus drew a contrast between all sins which shall be forgiven and the one sin which shall never be forgiven, which is rejection of the light clearly revealed to the sinner by the Holy Ghost.

 

[marke]

What did the thief on the cross give up?

Repentance is not about turning from sin to be saved. Repentance is turning to Jesus who died for our sins. Repenting from sins, for salvation, is a false gospel. It's blasphemous.

Like I said, penance is not accepted by God as a fruit worthy of forgiveness. You are right, human types of repentance are not accepted by God. But John came preaching the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins (Mark 1:4) and that specific type of repentance is involved in salvation and it has nothing to do with human works any more than believing God is a work of the flesh.

 

[OZOS]

Like I said, penance is not accepted by God as a fruit worthy of forgiveness. You are right, human types of repentance are not accepted by God. But John came preaching the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins (Mark 1:4) and that specific type of repentance is involved in salvation and it has nothing to do with human works any more than believing God is a work of the flesh.

I'm sure you understand that Jesus was born under the Law, taught under the Law, to those who were under the Law, and that the gospel preached unto the nation of Israel is not the same as the gospel by which we are saved after the cross, right?

 

[marke]

I'm sure you understand that Jesus was born under the Law, taught under the Law, to those who were under the Law, and that the gospel preached unto the nation of Israel is not the same as the gospel by which we are saved after the cross, right?

No sinner ever born was ever justified by the law. Abraham was justified by faith just as Christians today are justified by faith. This is from Romans 4:

13. For the promise that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith. ...
16. Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace, to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all.

God imputed righteousness to Abraham because of his faith, which had nothing to do with keeping the law. Of Abraham, God says further in Romans 4:

23. Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him;
24. But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead.

 

[OZOS]

No sinner ever born was ever justified by the law. Abraham was justified by faith just as Christians today are justified by faith. This is from Romans 4:

13. For the promise that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith. ...
16. Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace, to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all.

God imputed righteousness to Abraham because of his faith, which had nothing to do with keeping the law. Of Abraham, God says further in Romans 4:

23. Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him;
24. But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead.

Never denied that, or suggested that anyone was justified by the Law, and it was not my question. Over your head. Carry on.

 

[marke]

Never denied that, or suggested that anyone was justified by the Law, and it was not my question. Over your head. Carry on.

I think I understood you to say OT saints were saved differently than saints in the NT. What did you say, or mean, exactly?

 

[OZOS]

I think I understood you to say OT saints were saved differently than saints in the NT. What did you say, or mean, exactly?

Make up your mind then, are we saved by faith, or do we need to "repent of our sins"?

 

[marke]

Make up your mind then, are we saved by faith, or do we need to "repent of our sins"?

If God has commanded all men everywhere to repent (Acts 17:30) how can anyone get saved by faith if they do not believe God told them to do that?

 

[OZOS]

If God has commanded all men everywhere to repent (Acts 17:30) how can anyone get saved by faith if they do not believe God told them to do that?

Repentance is necessary for salvation. You added repentance "from sins" is necessary for salvation. The gospel does not teach that.

 

[marke]

Repentance is necessary for salvation. You added repentance "from sins" is necessary for salvation. The gospel does not teach that.

I will have to skip out from here on this because I am not seeing the problem you see with what I believe. Repentance is one thing and repentance from sins is another? My mind is too old to understand the logic.

 

[OZOS]

Repentance is one thing and repentance from sins is another?

Absolutely.

Repentance is not about you doing something about sin, it is agreeing with God that you can't do anything about sin, and trusting the One who did everything about sin.

 

[marke]

Absolutely.

Repentance is not about you doing something about sin, it is agreeing with God that you can't do anything about sin, and trusting the One who did everything about sin.

And yet repentance in obedience to Acts 17:30 is about doing something.

 

[OZOS]

And yet repentance in obedience to Acts 17:30 is about doing something.

Turning to God.

Jesus died for our sins, not for our unbelief. To repent is to turn from trusting in our own righteousness, to accepting His, by grace through faith.

 

[marke]

Turning to God.

Jesus died for our sins, not for our unbelief. To repent is to turn from trusting in our own righteousness, to accepting His, by grace through faith.

Fine then. Repent of sins and turn to God forgiveness and He will give the gift of salvation.

 

[OZOS]

Fine then. Repent of sins and turn to God forgiveness and He will give the gift of salvation.

Uh, no. "Repent of sins" is the exact opposite of turning to God. And forgiveness is received in Christ, when we receive His life.

We are repenting from unbelief. Repenting from sins, is what Paul called a false repentance. Judas exhibited a false repentance.

"Now I rejoice, not that you were made sorry, but that your sorrow led to repentance. For you were made sorry in a godly manner, that you might suffer loss from us in nothing. For godly sorrow produces repentance leading to salvation, not to be regretted; but the sorrow of the world produces death."

Judas "turned away from sin" feeling sorrow for what he had done, and then he went and killed himself, because no man can justify himself through his behavior.

"Then Judas, His betrayer, seeing that He had been condemned, was remorseful and brought back the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders, saying, “I have sinned by betraying innocent blood.” And they said, “What is that to us? You see to it!” Then he threw down the pieces of silver in the temple and departed, and went and hanged himself."

Judas attempted to repent from his sin, but that is a false repentance. The only true repentance was exhibited by the thief on the cross, who could do nothing about his sin, so he turned (repented) and believed in the One who did everything about sin.

 

[marke]

Uh, no. "Repent of sins" is the exact opposite of turning to God. And forgiveness is received in Christ, when we receive His life.

We are repenting from unbelief. Repenting from sins, is what Paul called a false repentance. Judas exhibited a false repentance.

"Now I rejoice, not that you were made sorry, but that your sorrow led to repentance. For you were made sorry in a godly manner, that you might suffer loss from us in nothing. For godly sorrow produces repentance leading to salvation, not to be regretted; but the sorrow of the world produces death."

Judas "turned away from sin" feeling sorrow for what he had done, and then he went and killed himself, because no man can justify himself through his behavior.

"Then Judas, His betrayer, seeing that He had been condemned, was remorseful and brought back the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders, saying, “I have sinned by betraying innocent blood.” And they said, “What is that to us? You see to it!” Then he threw down the pieces of silver in the temple and departed, and went and hanged himself."

Judas attempted to repent from his sin, but that is a false repentance. The only true repentance was exhibited by the thief on the cross, who could do nothing about his sin, so he turned (repented) and believed in the One who did everything about sin.

In simple terms, salvation is given to those who receive the light, and condemnation is the consequence of rejecting the light (John 3:19.) Jesus is the light that enlightens every man born into the world (John 1:9).

There is no deed a man must do to be saved and yet sinners are saved by works as well as by faith. That is not to say wrong interpretations of that truth are right, but to admit that faith without works is dead, just as we are told in James 2. I do not agree with wrong interpretations of that verse but I also do not agree with any doctrine which seeks to ignore that truth as if it is not in the Bible.

Let me illustrate. A rich man came to the Lord seeking salvation (Matthew 19), asking what he could do to inherit eternal life. Jesus mentioned a few of the commandments, but that was no problem to the mind of the rich man. So Jesus punctured the man's pretense of wanting to be saved more than anything in the world by challenging him, "If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me."

The point is that I do not believe we must assume that if the rich man had given away all his money he would have gotten saved. But I do believe that if the rich man was unwilling to do what Jesus told him and refused to obey then it is guaranteed he would not have gotten saved.

Faith with works is like that. Nobody will get saved by simply repenting of sins, but it is also true that nobody will get saved if he is unwilling to repent of his sins.

 

[way 2 go]

I think I understood you to say OT saints were saved differently than saints in the NT. What did you say, or mean, exactly?

this is a Mid Acts Dispensation site

The Plot (an overview of the Bible) | KGOV.com

kgov.com

 

[OZOS]

Nobody will get saved by simply repenting of sins, but it is also true that nobody will get saved if he is unwilling to repent of his sins.

Nobody is saved believing what you just said.

 

[OZOS]

In simple terms, salvation is given to those who receive the light, and condemnation is the consequence of rejecting the light (John 3:19.) Jesus is the light that enlightens every man born into the world (John 1:9).

Define salvation for me.