Are you born again (John 3)? Take this test.

[Nick M]

8 The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”

You can't tell where they came from or where they went. Like the wind. Nicodemus was supposed to know. Are you born again according to what the Lord Jesus Christ stated right there? Are there examples of this in the New Testament? From Luke.

31 Then their eyes were opened and they knew Him; and He vanished from their sight.

35 And they told about the things that had happened on the road, and how He was known to them in the breaking of bread. 36 Now as they said these things, Jesus Himself stood in the midst of them, and said to them, “Peace to you.” 37 But they were terrified and frightened, and supposed they had seen a spirit.

Retold in John. At least I think it is the same event.

19 Then, the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled, for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood in the midst, and said to them, “Peace be with you.”

I'm just trying to help you with your bad theology. We all have had it, some longer than others. As you can see, he met the conditions of John 3, which is prophecy. Nicodemus was supposed to know. Martha knew, Nicodemus did not. According to the Lord Jesus Christ in John 3:8, do you meet what he says is of those that are born of the Spirit?

​

 

[Nick M]

So the few worker bees, born again, personal relationship leading to salvation (conditional good works) small crowd won't take the test? Not surprising.

 

[Bright Raven]

So the few worker bees, born again, personal relationship leading to salvation (conditional good works) small crowd won't take the test? Not surprising.

I do not think the question is are you born again. The question is, Are you a Christian?

 

[Nick M]

I do not think the question is are you born again. The question is, Are you a Christian?

3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

There is a point to this. And most of the religion of Christianity in America will say yes. It is cut and dried. And there is a point to the thread.

 

[SwordOfTruth]

3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

Jesus also said:

John 6:53-58: Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you. Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

So you have 2 things here, both very important. On the one hand you have this "born again" thing. On the other hand you have this issue of there being "no life in you". Clearly Jesus was talking to living people when he said this so the "life" he was referring to was something more than just existing, being. What do you think that was?

As someone who understands much of alchemy allegory and symbology I know that in the above passage Jesus is referring to the White Stone and Red Stone of alchemy. These Stones facilitate the flow of life energy into the body. An etheric unseen energy that is all around us an in everything.

To be "Born again" you have to be a new type of person. It does not imho mean just believing in something. It literally means you have to transition from being a person with a physical body, to being a person with a "light body" or purely spirit body which is what Jesus transformed into. It's impossible to enter the kingdom without that transformation, that's what Jesus was trying to show/say. The death of the physical gross body is an absolute, no discussion. No-one is going to heaven in a physical body because it's a different plane of existence altogether. Jesus went through that transformation and all of us likewise have to do the same.

How is that achieved?

John 6:53-58 is telling us how. Unless you "eat the flesh" (take the White) and "drink the blood" (take the Red) then there is no life in you. In otherwords that vital universal source of life that pervades everything (call it what you want) is the "fuel" needed to get you from being a gross physical being into a "light being" or spirit being and as humans we aren't getting enough of that "fuel" to effect the necessary transformation and so we are stuck here on this earthly planet prison destined to go round and round and round. Only with enough quantity of that "fuel" can we effect the required transformation and become spirit beings and thus escape the physical constraints of this existence and go somewhere else.

 

[Right Divider]

Here is a great explanation: https://graceambassadors.com/salvation/the-born-again-nation

 

[Nick M]

So you have 2 things here, both very important. On the one hand you have this "born again" thing. On the other hand you have this issue of there being "no life in you". Clearly Jesus was talking to living people when he said this so the "life" he was referring to was something more than just existing, being. What do you think that was?

Born again in John 3 is resurrected. Martha knew, Nicodemus did not. He will not save those (Israelites) opposed to him even if they keep the law of Moses. They have to do both. Read my opening post again. John 3:8 is your key to knowing.

The last supper (passover) is symbolism, as is John 6 and it is obvious that it is not literal. You and the blind Jews don't get it. Do this in remembrance of me.

 

[SwordOfTruth]

You didn't answer my question. What is the "life" that Jesus is warning that we don't have in us?

This isn't the Last Supper. This is Jesus starkly warning you that if you don't eat something and drink something then you have no life in you. He's not saying eat and drink in remambrance of me. He's saying very specifically if you fail to eat X and drink Y then you have no "life" in you.

So what is this "life" he is referring to and what are X and Y?

I regret that millions of Christians worldwide have absolutely no idea or conception of what X and Y are nor what the "life" is that Jesus refers to and consequently they are sadly heading for oblivion.

 

[Nick M]

What is the "life" that Jesus is warning that we don't have in us?

Eternal life, and that is a red herring. We are dead from Adam's sin. Separated from God. The spiritual life died, he did not collapse from a heart attack.

 

[Nick M]

This isn't the Last Supper. This is Jesus starkly warning you that if you don't eat something and drink something then you have no life in you.

The last supper was the Jewish festival of the Pass over even in Exodus, which is foreshadowing salvation. You are now just making things up.

Luke 22:19

And He took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to them, saying, “This is My body which is given for you; do this in remembrance of Me.”

And of course in John, you are just like them.

41 The Jews then complained about Him, because He said, “I am the bread which came down from heaven.” 42 And they said, “Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How is it then that He says, ‘I have come down from heaven’?” 43 Jesus therefore answered and said to them, “Do not murmur among yourselves.....

52 The Jews therefore quarreled among themselves, saying, “How can this Man give us His flesh to eat?”

The Jews think he means it literally. It seems you do too. Like those Jews who followed the Law and tradition, but did not believe, you too are blinded by him and condemned. How does that taste anyway?

10 And the disciples came and said to Him, “Why do You speak to them in parables?” 11 He answered and said to them, “Because it has been given to you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been given.

 

[Nick M]

Back to the subject the devil's worker is trying to redirect from. From his perspective, the "protestants" are mostly wrong about it. Even those who are in Christ and called upon him to save them. You are not born again. John 3:8 tells you this.

 

[Lon]

So the few worker bees, born again, personal relationship leading to salvation (conditional good works) small crowd won't take the test? Not surprising.

Talking with a few MAD, 'born again' was specifically to Nicodemus and so they see this and salvation as separate. So, the question must be (from that Mid Acts perspective) is: What is the same if any? What is different?

First: What is different? A) Jesus is talking to Nicodemus with a kingdom offer. B) Gentiles are not yet in the picture nor is 'born again' possible without Jewish conversion and without kingdom promises. C) When Jesus was talking to the Samaritan woman John 4:22 He said Salvation belonged to the Jews.
D) Any pertinent point missed? Please chime in!

Second: What is the same?

Spoiler

John 3:
Joh 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
Joh 3:4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
Joh 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
Joh 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
Joh 3:8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
Joh 3:9 Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be?
Joh 3:10 Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?
Joh 3:11 Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness.
Joh 3:12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?
Joh 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
Joh 3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
Joh 3:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
For God So Loved the World
Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Joh 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
Joh 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
Joh 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
Joh 3:20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
Joh 3:21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

What is the same? A) What applies to both and did it change? John 3:3,5-8 Explains 'born again' in short, as not just born physically, but given a life spiritually. Is this true for all of us? I'd reckon. Is it the same as 'born again?' Perhaps not exactly given 'what is different' in Mid Acts, but John 3:16 gives 'whole world' as a scope. "Born Again" isn't something I can do, but something Christ alone was about to do vv11-18

The actions given are 'believe' v 18 what He could do that Nicodemus [I} couldn't, and 'come' v 21

Test? If an application to us today is the 'same' and those conditions are: then Believe ( I do) and Come (I have).

As to a 'test.' If this can be applied to us, we must believe/trust-come to Jesus Christ in His work. Later, Ephesians 2:8,9 ...His work alone.
Is this the test you are speaking of?

 

[Lon]

As someone who understands much of alchemy allegory and symbology I know that in the above passage Jesus is referring to the White Stone and Red Stone of alchemy. These Stones facilitate the flow of life energy into the body. An etheric unseen energy that is all around us an in everything.

:z No it is not.

To be "Born again" you have to be a new type of person. It does not imho mean just believing in something. It literally means you have to transition from being a person with a physical body, to being a person with a "light body" or purely spirit body which is what Jesus transformed into.

You cannot 'born' yourself nor can 'born again' yourself. That which is born 'of' spirit is spirit. It is a condition to be met and only Jesus could and did meet it.

 

[Lon]

Here is a great explanation: https://graceambassadors.com/salvation/the-born-again-nation

Even if I were MidActs, I don't believe I'd draw this starkly: John 3:16 enters a world, thus gentile concern of condition met. It means that it becomes a universal message and universal salvation in scope. "Born Again" to Barna means the same thing as 'salvation' to them. It isn't a moniker on point, even if seen as mistaken identity, but common salvation ('born again') not withstanding other than disagreement and application of the specific passage. If I'm understanding the Mid Acts point: Born again as a misnomer granted, but means the same thing to them as "Saved" means to a Mid Acts believer?

 

[Nick M]

First: What is different? A) Jesus is talking to Nicodemus with a kingdom offer. B) Gentiles are not yet in the picture nor is 'born again' possible without Jewish conversion and without kingdom promises. C) When Jesus was talking to the Samaritan woman John 4:22 He said Salvation belonged to the Jews.
D) Any pertinent point missed? Please chime in!

Correct. However, it is resurrection. Verse 8 is ignored because it does not fit the claims. When shown, many disregard and say it has to be interpreted. Which is always the answer when people don't like what it says.

 

[Nick M]

Gentile salvation had to go through Israel. They had to first bless Israel and become circumcised, opening a path for the whole world. However, this is not about the dispensation of grace, but what came before. Verse 8 shows nobody here is born again.

If you refer to the dispensation of grace you can't possibly say with a straight face it is just a continuation of the law of Moses that the Lord Jesus Christ demand they keep, or they will not be saved. They must believe in him and keep the law. Paul says no, only call upon his name. It is not the same thing. And because people claim they don't understand, Paul even tells us he is the first, and the pattern, the prototype for salvation into the Body of Christ.

 

[Nick M]

Here is a great explanation: https://graceambassadors.com/salvation/the-born-again-nation

I have not seen this. Despite the claims of that idiot godrulz. I know he is no longer here. I saw the thread. It doesn't change his moronic and foolish ways.

 

[Nick M]

Even if I were MidActs,

You are clearly not here to deceive. I have a question that is off my own subject. It is the way of TOL. Embrace it. Have you seen a chart like this before? You probably have, but I want to make sure. There are others like it.

 

[Right Divider]

Even if I were MidActs, I don't believe I'd draw this starkly:

I don't think that you understand MAD very well, even though you have claimed to have studied about it.

John 3:16 enters a world, thus gentile concern of condition met.

No clue what you're talking about. Don't forget what Jesus said about His mission:

Matt 15:24 (AKJV/PCE)​

(15:24) But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.​

It means that it becomes a universal message and universal salvation in scope.

Incorrect claim.

"Born Again" to Barna means the same thing as 'salvation' to them.

All Hail Barna!!!

It isn't a moniker on point, even if seen as mistaken identity, but common salvation ('born again') not withstanding other than disagreement and application of the specific passage. If I'm understanding the Mid Acts point: Born again as a misnomer granted, but means the same thing to them as "Saved" means to a Mid Acts believer?

Born again is about the nation of Israel and Israelites.

 

[Lon]

I don't think that you understand MAD very well, even though you have claimed to have studied about it.

Realize you don't all agree among yourselves. It'll help.

No clue what you're talking about. Don't forget what Jesus said about His mission:

Matt 15:24 (AKJV/PCE)​

(15:24) But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.​

I do get this and understand. Let me ask: do you see any things 'that are the same' in this passage between Israel and us gentile Christians today?

Incorrect claim.

He didn't "so love the 'world?'"

All Hail Barna!!!

Naw, just answer whether anything is the same. Do you, a gentile today, have to be 'born of the Spirit?' yes or no (the rest is just detail imho).

Born again is about the nation of Israel and Israelites.

I agree that is the message according to Mid Acts and not really on the table. I'm rather asking if 'born again' is the same need for gentiles today 'if' there is anything the same. Mid Acts is not opposed to 'same' just looks whether it applies to all of us or not. If not 'born again' something incredibly similar. If I were Mid Acts, "world" is important and I'd reckon it into my theology. 1) Thank you, sincerely for the input 2) please explain the difference as best as you can with whatever time you've got and thank you (sincerely). We aren't enemies, we disagree at times but I genuinely enjoy theology discussion and fellowship despite the difference. It is one reason (call me a glutton?) I'm still on TOL. I care and discussion over anything I and you love about Our Precious God is worth the time spent. In Him -Lon