Are You a Misogynist?

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Frank Ernest

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Civil, cultural, educational equality.
That's rather vague as a principle.
The right to vote, own property, be paid equally.
I believe the first two already exist. The third is more problematic, having to do with market forces and all.
To be not thought of as property of the husband,
Then you are for some sort of legislation which would impose thought and attitude controls on men?
to be protected from domestic violence,
In what way? We already have laws which do that. Would you have a police presence in every home 24/7 to ensure it?
to keep her own name if she so desires.
That has always been a matter of convention. By "her own name" do you not refer to the surname of her father?
For girls not to be automatically assumed "not as good at math as boys are" or that they should only do "girl things."
Who would automatically assume that, other than someone thoroughly ignorant of the human condition?
For women to be free to wear their hair the way they want or the clothes they want. (For example, some men think women shouldn't wear pants because they're dressing like men. Some men think women only wear dresses to draw attention to their sexuality.)
Then we must have some thought control legislation to prohibit "some men" from thinking the way they, perhaps, do?
To have access to and aspire to higher education without being held back by men who think women's roles should be domestic in nature only.
Those who aspire generally do, in my experience. My university experience was some 50 years ago and I don't remember any shortage of women in that setting. Far from it and I did attend a university with a significant student population.
As for the "fine the way they were" that would be before women achieved the civil, cultural and educational rights they now hold, although there still remains a culture of perception in some men which is evident here in this forum. One poster here believes "a few bruises" received from a husband isn't reason enough for the wife to seek divorce. Other men here don't believe women should vote. Still others denigrate women's rationality or blame them when they're victims of sexual harassment or assault.
Really? I believe your assessment of the civil and cultural climates extant are based on some amorphous view of assumed collective thought rather than on the merits of any individual case.
The above isn't comprehensive but it should give you an idea.
It does. And, I will give you the same advice I would, and have, given to others with a similar viewpoint as you. When one decides to trade power for status, be very, very, careful. As Shakespeare put it, "Uneasy lies the head that wears the crown."
 

chrysostom

Well-known member
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Apparently I do have some utilitarian and social value to the women in my life. At least that's what they keep telling me. :chuckle:

they keep me around to kill spiders, dig holes, and take the garbage out
but
so far I haven't had to do a math problem for them
 

Frank Ernest

New member
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they keep me around to kill spiders, dig holes, and take the garbage out
:darwinsm: I can relate to that, especially the spider part.
but
so far I haven't had to do a math problem for them
My wife takes care of the household math, except for taxes. She has since the day we married. For taxes she told me that is a "boy job."
 

chrysostom

Well-known member
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:darwinsm: I can relate to that, especially the spider part.

My wife takes care of the household math, except for taxes. She has since the day we married. For taxes she told me that is a "boy job."

I also have to do the taxes
I tried to get her to do the bills
but
I am still doing that as well
 

annabenedetti

like marbles on glass
That's rather vague as a principle.

It wasn't meant to be anything other than a thumbnail sketch, and as such I think it did the job just fine.

I believe the first two already exist. The third is more problematic, having to do with market forces and all.

Then you are for some sort of legislation which would impose thought and attitude controls on men?

In what way? We already have laws which do that. Would you have a police presence in every home 24/7 to ensure it?

That has always been a matter of convention. By "her own name" do you not refer to the surname of her father?

Who would automatically assume that, other than someone thoroughly ignorant of the human condition?

Then we must have some thought control legislation to prohibit "some men" from thinking the way they, perhaps, do?

Those who aspire generally do, in my experience. My university experience was some 50 years ago and I don't remember any shortage of women in that setting. Far from it and I did attend a university with a significant student population.

Really? I believe your assessment of the civil and cultural climates extant are based on some amorphous view of assumed collective thought rather than on the merits of any individual case.
You seem to think I was only talking about the present and future, and disregarding what women have already achieved. Here's what I said:

Any man who thinks women didn't have the need to work for equality because women were fine the way they were could be a misogynist.

The way women were wasn't fine. Your university experience of 50 years ago is anecdotal and not indicative of the centuries that went before you. Your "thought control" comment is condescending and patriarchal in tone, since I didn't indicate anything of the sort, I merely observed how some men think. Perhaps you may be one of the men I had in mind.

It does. And, I will give you the same advice I would, and have, given to others with a similar viewpoint as you. When one decides to trade power for status, be very, very, careful. As Shakespeare put it, "Uneasy lies the head that wears the crown."
Ah, but I didn't ask for your advice.
 

Frank Ernest

New member
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I also have to do the taxes
I tried to get her to do the bills
but
I am still doing that as well
Ah! The Bills. I do that online as much as possible. She can't use a computer because of vision problems. Of course I have to report payments in order for her to do the books. Before the computer, she wrote the checks for the bills. Since the computer, paying the bills has become another "boy job." :D
 

bybee

New member
Apparently I do have some utilitarian and social value to the women in my life. At least that's what they keep telling me. :chuckle:

Taking care of the cars, cleaning the garage, taking care of the lawn, cleaning the basement, taking out mice caught in traps, running assorted motors, shoveling snow, giving compliments, bar-b-cuing, enjoying my company....
I've done all of the above except bar-b-cuing.
The best thing about men? They're not women!
 

Frank Ernest

New member
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It wasn't meant to be anything other than a thumbnail sketch, and as such I think it did the job just fine.
Very well.
You seem to think I was only talking about the present and future, and disregarding what women have already achieved. Here's what I said:



The way women were wasn't fine. Your university experience of 50 years ago is anecdotal and not indicative of the centuries that went before you. Your "thought control" comment is condescending and patriarchal in tone, since I didn't indicate anything of the sort, I merely observed how some men think. Perhaps you may be one of the men I had in mind.
I am convinced that to be "one of the men I (you) had in mind" all I had to do was disagree with you.
Ah, but I didn't ask for your advice.
More's the pity. Thank you for your condescending, patronizing, "matriarchal" tone.
 

Frank Ernest

New member
Hall of Fame
Taking care of the cars, cleaning the garage, taking care of the lawn, cleaning the basement, taking out mice caught in traps, running assorted motors, shoveling snow, giving compliments, bar-b-cuing, enjoying my company....
I've done all of the above except bar-b-cuing.
The best thing about men? They're not women!
My wife and daughters and female friends would agree with that.
I will include bar-b-cuing among the "boy jobs." :D
I do have one girlfriend who insists that clearing the area of dead wildlife is, in fact, a "boy job."
 

bybee

New member
Yes. You would have me conclude otherwise?

Oh my! I believe I have encountered an intellectualizing feminist snob. I beg pardon of Her Royal Highness for invading, unknowingly, her sacred domain.

Now, now Dearie, you did have a bit of an edge to your retorts.
Anna is a wonderful, intelligent, compassionate person.
I am sure you are merely being flip because you also are a wonderful, intelligent person!
 

Rusha

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
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someone like you might think we were women haters
if
we were to merely observe how some women think

There is no *we* in this ... I wouldn't use that term with most of the men in this forum. You tend to stick out like a sore thumb.
 
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