are you a feminist?

[staind.raindrop]

...this is about how you think about feminists and whether or not you consider yourself one...

I do not value women's rights so much that I believe the only appropriate response to any form of misogyny or sexism is to take offense.

wow,i spent about 2 hours looking through all the threads on are you a feminist?,are women equal,ect.ect. and there's 2 things i learned one is "you are not going to win the argument",,and the second after looking at it even more close is "you aren't going to win the argument",,,,so lets all band together and make God take it back!!! what was he thinking when he said,,,,,

"Unto the woman he said,I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception;in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children;and thy desire shall be to thy husband,AND HE SHALL RULE OVER THEE",,gen.3;16,,,,

It's true, men do rule women and the Bible does not support poor execution of that authority. It is infuriating for those under that authority when people interpret what God said as meaning that He does, so I understand why many women have resorted to reacting radically. If all men followed God's instruction to respect and support their wives, no one would suggest that women have no place in the workforce since it is as diverse as human interests and capabilities are.

Are you a bunnyist? lain:

Define bunnyism. :liberals:

 

[chrysostom]

Why does he need to define feminism in order for this thread to have productive conversation? He wants to know who identifies as a feminist by whatever definition they have. No one needs to worry about getting boxed in by a particular definition because they can give their meaning of the word with their yes/no answer.

Of course, no one has to play by chrys' rules but I think it's wrong to say that this thread can go nowhere until he provides his own definition.

that is a reasonable post

 

[chrysostom]

we can't be equal
we were made different
the only solution is to appreciate those differences

 

[Rusha]

we can't be equal
we were made different
the only solution is to appreciate those differences

We actually CAN be equal and appreciate those difference instead of trying to pretend they are sufficient cause to deprive one gender of the same rights.

 

[chrysostom]

why are so many so reluctant to call themselves a feminist?

 

[kmoney]

Well, he doesn't though, that's the point. As usual with Chrys nowadays, any thread like this has a feeble agenda attached so it was not unreasonable to get him to define what feminism actually meant. It likely sticks in his craw that it's not as simplistic as he would prefer as even he would be classed as a feminist by some by supporting the rights of women to vote.

I doubt that sticks in his craw because how many really view feminism as being about the right to vote? Likely a very small minority. I don't see why that view of feminism needs to be talked about. Removing that topic from the table doesn't make feminism a perfectly straightforward thing, but saying chrys is a feminist by that definition doesn't do anything for you.

Unless they're democrats...

:chuckle:

 

[staind.raindrop]

why are so many so reluctant to call themselves a feminist?

Isn't it obvious by now that feminists don't like to be stereotyped?

 

[chrysostom]

Isn't it obvious by now that feminists don't like to be stereotyped?

that's funny

 

[Rusha]

Isn't it obvious by now that feminists don't like to be stereotyped?

Do you believe that men and women should receive equal pay for equal work? Do you believe women should be allowed to vote, drive, etc.?

 

[kmoney]

Isn't it obvious by now that feminists don't like to be stereotyped?

Do you like to be stereotyped?

 

[staind.raindrop]

I did not say that feminists are the only people who are against stereotypes. I was saying that the word feminist comes with extreme stereotypes. Since feminists in general are trying to be free of stereotypes in the first place, it makes sense that they are hesitant in identifying with the stereotypical identity people associate with the title.

 

[chrysostom]

I was saying that the word feminist comes with extreme stereotypes.

like what?

 

[chrysostom]

you could say tea party people are stereotyped
but
I haven't noticed any reluctance by most to say whether or not they support them

 

[Spitfire]

why is this such a difficult label?

I answered that question in the fascist feminist thread. Obviously, you ignored me. That does not surprise me. Maybe if you paid attention to more than 10-20% of what I say before you start attempting to draw conclusions, you wouldn't even have to ask such questions in the first place.

Mostly, however, I wonder why it was so difficult for you to establish some criteria that would help me answer accurately. I don't think that was an unreasonable request. But maybe you didn't particularity care whether my answer was accurate or not? Why ask, then?

 

[chrysostom]

I answered that question in the fascist feminist thread. Obviously, you ignored me. That does not surprise me. Maybe if you paid attention to more than 10-20% of what I say before you start attempting to draw conclusions, you wouldn't even have to ask such questions in the first place.

Mostly, however, I wonder why it was so difficult for you to establish some criteria that would help me answer accurately. I don't think that was an unreasonable request. But maybe you didn't particularity care whether my answer was accurate or not? Why ask, then?

no I did not ignore you
your answer and the answer given by bybee are precisely the reason why I started this thread as stated in the opening post
neither one of you wanted to say whether or not you were a feminist and you both gave the reasons why which I respect

I want others to do the same
and
I would like you to repeat your answer
if
you think you did explain this reluctance by most everyone

 

[Spitfire]

no I did not ignore you
your answer and the answer given by bybee are precisely the reason why I started this thread as stated in the opening post
neither one of you wanted to say whether or not you were a feminist and you both gave the reasons why which I respect

Let me try to help you understand why your question was pointless.

"Feminism" is nothing but a secular buzzword that has become essentially meaningless as a result of the tremendously wide variety of things it may or may not mean to different people. Therefore, I can't think of anything that is less important to me than whether or not I am a feminist or anyone else considers me a feminist, and my "yes" or "no" to the question "are you a feminist?" indicates, communicates, and changes nothing. I believe what I do - whether or not that makes me a feminist is of no consequence to me whatsoever. Maybe I'd at least still be able to answer accurately about whether or not I am a feminist according to you if you were to explain what specific beliefs and positions represent your idea of feminism. But, you confused our desire to be able to actually give a meaningful, accurate answer with unwillingness to answer.

 

[chrysostom]

Let me try to help you understand why your question was pointless.

"Feminism" is nothing but a secular buzzword that has become essentially meaningless as a result of the tremendously wide variety of things it may or may not mean to different people. Therefore, I can't think of anything that is less important to me than whether or not I am a feminist or anyone else considers me a feminist, and my "yes" or "no" to the question "are you a feminist?" indicates, communicates, and changes nothing. I believe what I do - whether or not that makes me a feminist is of no consequence to me whatsoever. Maybe I'd at least still be able to answer accurately about whether or not I am a feminist according to you if you were to explain what specific beliefs and positions represent your idea of feminism. But, you confused our desire to be able to actually give a meaningful, accurate answer with unwillingness to answer.

what are you doing in this thread
if
it is not important?
and
why can't you just say that you are not a feminist
if
it is not a big deal?

it is a big deal
and
it is important

why would you even care what I think of feminism?
and
why would I care about how you feel about how I might define it?
but
I do really wonder why my asking the question gets you all so upset

 

[Spitfire]

why would you even care what I think of feminism?

Because, unless I do know that, it is not possible for me to actually answer your question. How can you still not understand that? :doh:

I do really wonder why my asking the question gets you all so upset

I am genuinely annoyed that you ignored most (if not practically all) of what I said in my responses and then said I had difficulty answering the question.

 

[chrysostom]

Because, unless I do know that, it is not possible for me to actually answer your question. How can you still not understand that? :doh:

I am genuinely annoyed that you ignored most (if not practically all) of what I said in my responses and then said I had difficulty answering the question.

I don't have a definition for feminist
and
this would then be all about my definition
if
I were to present one
and
what would that accomplish?

what did you expect me to say about your response that would show you that I did not ignore you?

 

[Arthur Brain]

I doubt that sticks in his craw because how many really view feminism as being about the right to vote? Likely a very small minority. I don't see why that view of feminism needs to be talked about. Removing that topic from the table doesn't make feminism a perfectly straightforward thing, but saying chrys is a feminist by that definition doesn't do anything for you.

But therein lies the point. The term 'feminist' means squat in itself as it's nothing but a label without some sort of parameters or definition to work with. This is why Chrys has been asked to provide some as it's just a pointless question to answer without. Some people will consider one to be a 'feminist' solely for supporting the rights of women to vote. Does that necessarily make somebody one? No. I support equal opportunities for both men and women so by other folk's standards that would make me a feminist also. It's a label I'm neither reluctant to avoid or bothered about embracing as essentially it's just that - a pointless label - to match a pointless thread.