You're right Cronin, a poll can't prove anything, only what the majority think. What Church do you think preaches the correct understanding of scripture?
Are there Saints In Heaven? Poll Question
- Thread starter patrick jane
- Start date
Rosenritter
New member
Yes, some saints rose from the grave, but they did not rise to immortality and eternal life. They went into the city and were seen by witnesses.
Matthew 27:52-53 KJV
(52) And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
(53) And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.
This would be consistent with other that have been raised to life to this point. The child of the widow raised by Elijah, the daughter of the ruler, and also Lazarus. All these were raised to life, but they were not changed (1 Kings 17:22 ,Matthew 9:25, John 11:44). Paul himself raised one of the saints back to life, and it is understood that he was also raised to a mortal state (Acts 20:10) and would have died again in his normal time.
Proof One
Back to the instance in the gospel account, it does not say that the saints were raised immortal, or that they ascended to heaven, or that they are still alive in any fashion. Actually speaking to the contrary, Paul tells us in Hebrews 11 that the saints of God have not received the promise, and that their reward lies ahead, that they without us should not be made perfect.
Hebrews 11:39-40 KJV
(39) And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:
(40) God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.
Without an actual scripture stating that these saints that arose ascended to heaven or were raised to immortality, I think the more natural interpretation is that they were raised to life in the same fashion as every other person who has been raised to life so far. They would be raised to life in the normal physical sense.
Proof Two
On the topic of being raised to eternal life and immortality, the saints that arose at Christ's crucifixion cannot have ascended to heaven or been raised to immortality. First, Christ only has the special privilege of ascending to heaven (Psalm 24 was used as a proof of the Deity of Christ by Christians as early as the 2nd Century, which specifies that ascending to heaven is the identification of the LORD of Hosts)
Psalms 24:7-10 KJV
(7) Lift up your heads, O ye gates; and be ye lift up, ye everlasting doors; and the King of glory shall come in.
(8) Who is this King of glory? The LORD strong and mighty, the LORD mighty in battle.
(9) Lift up your heads, O ye gates; even lift them up, ye everlasting doors; and the King of glory shall come in.
(10) Who is this King of glory? The LORD of hosts, he is the King of glory. Selah.
... and second, Christ is called the firstfruits of them that slept. If others were raised to eternal life and immortality before Christ, he cannot be the fruitfruits, can he? Someone else would be the firstfruits.
1 Corinthians 15:20-23 KJV
(20) But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
(21) For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
(22) For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
(23) But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
So the very gospel (as defined by Paul as being the gospel) says that Christ is the firstfruits of those that slept, which excludes any others. We are also told when others will be raised to eternal life, afterwards at Christ's coming.
So there's actually quite a few good reasons to believe that those saints were raised to life, and died again at a later date.
a) Previous resurrections were to physical life only
b) The scripture does not state that these saints were raised to anything but physical life
c) Ascending to heaven is the identification of God, the LORD of Hosts
d) Christ is the firstfruits of them that slept, therefore he must be first
e) We are specifically told that the saints are not raised to eternal life until after Christ's return.
God's Truth
New member
You are and do exactly what you falsely accuse me of; funny how that works. You expose yourself.
God's Truth
New member
Maybe Jesus was being deceitful like when he spoke of the rich man and Lazarus in Luke 16.
Exactly!
God's Truth
New member
You have a doctrine of death. You have no idea about the life given through Jesus.
oatmeal
Well-known member
From a spiritual, legal point of view we are seated in the heavenlies, but again that is speaking of our spiritual authority and power given to us by God.
No saint is literally there now.
We must wait for our gathering together unto him for that.
I Thessalonians 4:13-18
No saint is literally there now.
We must wait for our gathering together unto him for that.
I Thessalonians 4:13-18
God's Truth
New member
The spirit of humans live on in consciousness after the death of the physical body.
The scriptures show us that spirits of those who have died can be comforted; and spirits can hear the gospel and live according to it. Paul even thought that he went to heaven in his spirit.
Sleekbacksmile
New member
Yes Jesus was being deceitful and causing people to get angry with His parables. That's what got Him killed.
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Sleekbacksmile
New member
.
In Num 22:22 God Himself, stood against { Balaam } as a { SATAN ) / adversary - against him.
Here in Num 22:22 God Himself -referrers to His own Angel - as a Satan. _) adversary {
The word Satan simply means an adversary. it is not only used for the Evil Spirits of the devil.
But The Lord God also calls His own Holy angels as the term Satan in regarding God sending the Holy Obedient Angels act as an adversary against Gods Enemies.
Throughout the Old Testament, The Holy angels as well are called as Satan, simply meaning the Hebrew word Hebrew 7854 שׂטן śâṭân / saw-tawn' An opponent; adversary or simply to withstand.
It is not only used for meaning the Evil Spirit of The Devil.
Also in Num 22:32 And the Holy angel of the LORD is called Satan as well - Again.
In other places the Human enemies of Israel in war and conflicts are called as Satan as well.
In Num 22:22 God Himself, stood against { Balaam } as a { SATAN ) / adversary - against him.
Here in Num 22:22 God Himself -referrers to His own Angel - as a Satan. _) adversary {
The word Satan simply means an adversary. it is not only used for the Evil Spirits of the devil.
But The Lord God also calls His own Holy angels as the term Satan in regarding God sending the Holy Obedient Angels act as an adversary against Gods Enemies.
Throughout the Old Testament, The Holy angels as well are called as Satan, simply meaning the Hebrew word Hebrew 7854 שׂטן śâṭân / saw-tawn' An opponent; adversary or simply to withstand.
It is not only used for meaning the Evil Spirit of The Devil.
Also in Num 22:32 And the Holy angel of the LORD is called Satan as well - Again.
In other places the Human enemies of Israel in war and conflicts are called as Satan as well.
Sleekbacksmile
New member
Yes, I was wrong about God being deceitful. I am sorry. The term deceitful is not what I intended.
However that God was quick, sharp and sometimes harsh in his words.
However that God was quick, sharp and sometimes harsh in his words.
I said
[Jhn 3:13
13 "No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, [that is], the Son of Man who is in heaven.
Who are them who dwell in heaven?
Revelation 13:6 KJV - [FONT="]And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.[/FONT]