Are there Saints In Heaven? Poll Question

[Rosenritter]

No.

The Almighty God begat a Son.

LA

"You are not yet fifty years old, and you have seen Abraham?" How did Jesus answer?

And when was the Son begotten?

Luke 1:30-31 KJV
(30) And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God.
(31) And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS.

Was the Son of God begotten before or after Abraham?

Yet how did Jesus answer the question, "Thou art not yet fifty years old, and thou has seen Abraham?"

John 8:57-59 KJV
(57) Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?
(58) Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
(59) Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.

 

[way 2 go]

voted , yes

 

[Lazy afternoon]

"You are not yet fifty years old, and you have seen Abraham?" How did Jesus answer?

And when was the Son begotten?

Luke 1:30-31 KJV
(30) And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God.
(31) And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS.

Was the Son of God begotten before or after Abraham?

Yet how did Jesus answer the question, "Thou art not yet fifty years old, and thou has seen Abraham?"

John 8:57-59 KJV
(57) Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?
(58) Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
(59) Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.

Truth is not a matter to arrive at by debate.

You can not discern the Father IN His Son.

LA

 

[God's Truth]

Truth is not a matter to arrive at by debate.

You can not discern the Father IN His Son.

LA

We are to debate, even in public debate. We are to argue, vigorously refute, sharply dispute, persuade, oppose, defend, confirm, command, preach, teach, instruct, rebuke, encourage, and contend.

 

[Rosenritter]

Truth is not a matter to arrive at by debate.

You can not discern the Father IN His Son.

LA

John 14:7-11 KJV
(7) If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
(8) Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
(9) Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
(10) Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
(11) Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.

Jesus said you could.

 

[Lazy afternoon]

John 14:7-11 KJV
(7) If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
(8) Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
(9) Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
(10) Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
(11) Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.

Jesus said you could.

You don't because you say Jesus IS the Father.

LA

 

[marhig]

John 14:7-11 KJV
(7) If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
(8) Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
(9) Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
(10) Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
(11) Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.

Jesus said you could.

Yes because the father was in the son! Not because the son is the father!

You quote this verse

Believe me that I am in the Father,and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.

But then there's this

John 17

That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

So, once we are born of God, we are one in the father and the son just as the father and Christ are one. So does that make us God?

 

[Rosenritter]

Yes because the father was in the son! Not because the son is the father!

You quote this verse

Believe me that I am in the Father,and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.

But then there's this

John 17

That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

So, once we are born of God, we are one in the father and the son just as the father and Christ are one. So does that make us God?

That would seem to be an imperfect metaphor (metaphors by their nature cannot always be perfect). So let's cut past the vague, back to gospel of John, the introduction of the whole gospel. What does it tell us that is supposed to set the whole stage for our understanding? How many Gods are there? WHO does it say was our God who created all things? And when he was made flesh, did his own know who he was?

 

[patrick jane]

That would seem to be an imperfect metaphor (metaphors by their nature cannot always be perfect). So let's cut past the vague, back to gospel of John, the introduction of the whole gospel. What does it tell us that is supposed to set the whole stage for our understanding? How many Gods are there? WHO does it say was our God who created all things? And when he was made flesh, did his own know who he was?

Please elaborate

 

[Rosenritter]

Please elaborate

Oh no... asking me to elaborate is like asking for a five-thousand word essay. I'll try:

1. Metaphors can be used to emphasize a particular point but are seldom perfect in all points.
2. When reading the metaphors used within the gospel of John, it is appropriate to see how John wants us to read the whole book.
3. John introduces his book to us with the explanation that is our guide for interpreting the whole contents. "In the beginning ... the Word was God."
4. There is only one God. There is only one Creator. He's very clear that the Word who became flesh, walked among us, was not known by us, was this creator and our God
5. Just read the gospel of John, read it as John wrote it, don't try to find a favorite line to pull out of context to contradict John's obvious intent and message. No Unitarian would ever write as John did.

 

[Lazy afternoon]

Oh no... asking me to elaborate is like asking for a five-thousand word essay. I'll try:

1. Metaphors can be used to emphasize a particular point but are seldom perfect in all points.
2. When reading the metaphors used within the gospel of John, it is appropriate to see how John wants us to read the whole book.
3. John introduces his book to us with the explanation that is our guide for interpreting the whole contents. "In the beginning ... the Word was God."
4. There is only one God. There is only one Creator. He's very clear that the Word who became flesh, walked among us, was not known by us, was this creator and our god
5. Just read the gospel of John, read it as John wrote it, don't try to find a favorite line to pull out of context to contradict John's obvious intent and message. No Unitarian would ever write as John did.

It was Gods word which became flesh, not God Himself.

God prepared a body to dwell in, which was the whole man Jesus, not just a flesh covering of Him.

LA

 

[God's Truth]

It was Gods word which became flesh, not God Himself.

God prepared a body to dwell in, which was the whole man Jesus, not just a flesh covering of Him.

LA

God's Word is God.

 

[Rosenritter]

It was Gods word which became flesh, not God Himself.

God prepared a body to dwell in, which was the whole man Jesus, not just a flesh covering of Him.

LA

"...the Word was God."

I don't know how John could have specified this in any language more clear.

 

[Lazy afternoon]

"...the Word was God."

I don't know how John could have specified this in any language more clear.

The word "God" describes the character of the word, not that the word is a person, as you read into the text.

Furthermore the original verses described the word as an "it", not a him.

also He who was in the world which the world did not know, was the Spirit of the Father, not Jesus.

Jesus did NOT light every man who comes into the world, only the light and spirit of the Father did.

Reading one's particular views into the verses is a problem to people who do it.

LA

 

[Rosenritter]

The word "God" describes the character of the word, not that the word is a person, as you read into the text.

Furthermore the original verses described the word as an "it", not a him.

also He who was in the world which the world did not know, was the Spirit of the Father, not Jesus.

Jesus did NOT light every man who comes into the world, only the light and spirit of the Father did.

Reading one's particular views into the verses is a problem to people who do it.

LA

Whatever or however you are reading doesn't seem to line up with the first chapter of John.

 

[Sleekbacksmile]

The English Translators did the same thing to the Name of Yashua with Je sus

Also the name of James in the English Translation as well has been perverted.
Greek 2385 Ἰάκωβος Iakōbos / Yacobus / ee-ak'-o-bos

Jacobus, the name of - James, in English. There is no Comparison

'Jesus.' His real name is pronounced Yeshua or Yehoshua, in the Hebrew. .

many faithful believers in Yeshua who have used the name "Jesus" There is no attempt here to make anyone feel guilty of transgression for a mere mistake of pronunciation.

The Origin of the Name Jesus

Let's look at the origin of 'Jesus'. Jesus is derived from Middle English (ca. A.D. 1066) and then is previous derived from Old English and then previous is taken from Late Latin (A.D. 300-700) and then previous is taken from Greek and then is previous taken from Hebrew, 'Yeshua,' 'Yehoshua'.

This is according to The American College Dictionary.

Then in the 4th century, scribes who no longer knew or cared about the Nazarene use of the Name expanded the devices into normal Greek. This then got translated into Late Latin as 'Iesu,' and then into Old English as 'Jesus,'

The end result is a word 'Jesus' which cannot be recognized as 'Ya shua.'

It is just a lack of concern - People are ashamed to use the Real Name of Yashua / Yahoshua. There are various reasons why they are ashamed. Most simply have no scriptures for their faith, while they follow the ideology of the translators, instead of reading the Meaning of the original Manuscripts and keeping the original pronunciation of the people’s Names.

They really don’t like the People and Characters of the Bible. They just like the image the translators have created in their translations.

 

[Truster]

The word "God" describes the character of the word, not that the word is a person, as you read into the text.

Furthermore the original verses described the word as an "it", not a him.

also He who was in the world which the world did not know, was the Spirit of the Father, not Jesus.

Jesus did NOT light every man who comes into the world, only the light and spirit of the Father did.

Reading one's particular views into the verses is a problem to people who do it.

LA

The word God is a transliteration of the Germanic tribal word Gott. Gott being a title that the tribes gave to all their idols and totems. Luther passed this on to Tyndale who transliterated from the German Gott instead of transliterating from the Hebrew to give us Elohim.

 

[marhig]

The English Translators did the same thing to the Name of Yashua with Je sus

Also the name of James in the English Translation as well has been perverted.
Greek 2385 Ἰάκωβος Iakōbos / Yacobus / ee-ak'-o-bos

Jacobus, the name of - James, in English. There is no Comparison

'Jesus.' His real name is pronounced Yeshua or Yehoshua, in the Hebrew. .

many faithful believers in Yeshua who have used the name "Jesus" There is no attempt here to make anyone feel guilty of transgression for a mere mistake of pronunciation.

The Origin of the Name Jesus

Let's look at the origin of 'Jesus'. Jesus is derived from Middle English (ca. A.D. 1066) and then is previous derived from Old English and then previous is taken from Late Latin (A.D. 300-700) and then previous is taken from Greek and then is previous taken from Hebrew, 'Yeshua,' 'Yehoshua'.

This is according to The American College Dictionary.

Then in the 4th century, scribes who no longer knew or cared about the Nazarene use of the Name expanded the devices into normal Greek. This then got translated into Late Latin as 'Iesu,' and then into Old English as 'Jesus,'

The end result is a word 'Jesus' which cannot be recognized as 'Ya shua.'

It is just a lack of concern - People are ashamed to use the Real Name of Yashua / Yahoshua. There are various reasons why they are ashamed. Most simply have no scriptures for their faith, while they follow the ideology of the translators, instead of reading the Meaning of the original Manuscripts and keeping the original pronunciation of the people’s Names.

They really don’t like the People and Characters of the Bible. They just like the image the translators have created in their translations.

I sure that God will be more concerned about our heart condition and whether we believe in Jesus and the gospel, and whether we repent and live by the will.of God or not, than whether we pronounce the name of Jesus right.

Jesus is pronounced Jesus in English and that is my language just like many English names will be pronounced differently in other languages.

God looks at the heart first and foremost.

 

[Sleekbacksmile]

.
I agree with You. This is true. The Spirit of The Father was fully filled completely within Christ Yahoshuah but He could not send The Comforter unto all of Man or present Him to man.

This is because His Mission, Purpose of Salvation and Purposed plan had not been complete yet. The Lamb / Christ had not Ascended up to Sit upon the RIGHT OF POWER of the Throne.


Jesus Who being in the MORPH of God . Took on the MORPH of a Servant and Died, Rose From The Dead and ascended Up To the RIGHT of Power of The Father.

RESIDING in the Throne of The Father. The Lamb Sits / Resides upon The Right of Power of The Throne In the Center of The Throne Receiving Worship.

Then things begin to happen.


REMEMBER - In (Revelation 5:6). Before taking the scroll from God the Father, the Lamb, Jesus, is seen to be situated in the center of the throne, occupying the same location and position as God, the Father. This would be consistent with Jesus' statements, "I and the Father are one" (John 10:30

) and "
Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father" (14:9b). At any time, and at their will, they can coexist together as One.

Then, after projecting outward from the throne, having dissociated Himself from the Father (but still continuing to be God), Jesus, the Lamb, is seen to take the scroll from the Father seated on the throne. In fact, in addition to God the Lamb (Jesus) and God the Father coexisting in the same place and at the same time.

REMEMBER How Jesus Said in Joh 3:13 - And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

Jesus was on Earth and In Heaven all at the Very Same Time. understand How Jesus Can Be Man and God at The Same Time.

While on earth - Jesus Said he would Send another Comforter / Advocate.

This Is the Light that is given to every man who comes into the world.

The Greek word Comforter here is Greek 3875 παράκλητος / paraklētos / par-ak'-lay-tos - = An intercessor, consoler: - advocate, comforter.

This same word is used as an advocate in 1Jn 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an Comforter / Advocate. with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

Jesus Christ is the very Comforter / Advocate

Advocate and Comforter are always The same eXact Greek word / paraklētos


Joh 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

Joh 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
Joh 14:18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.

Joh 14:19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

Joh 14:20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.

Joh 14:23 ........, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and come unto him, and make dwell with him.

Joh 14:24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.

Joh 14:25 These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you.

Joh 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you. …

Joh 14:28 I go away, and come again unto you.

Joh 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter / Advocate that he may abide with you for ever;

Jesus is the Father - On The throne of the Father who is Coming Back as the Comforter / Advocate. The Holy Spirit of Light. Filling believers with His Spirit.

 

[God's Truth]

The English Translators did the same thing to the Name of Yashua with Je sus

Also the name of James in the English Translation as well has been perverted.
Greek 2385 Ἰάκωβος Iakōbos / Yacobus / ee-ak'-o-bos

Jacobus, the name of - James, in English. There is no Comparison

'Jesus.' His real name is pronounced Yeshua or Yehoshua, in the Hebrew. .

many faithful believers in Yeshua who have used the name "Jesus" There is no attempt here to make anyone feel guilty of transgression for a mere mistake of pronunciation.

The Origin of the Name Jesus

Let's look at the origin of 'Jesus'. Jesus is derived from Middle English (ca. A.D. 1066) and then is previous derived from Old English and then previous is taken from Late Latin (A.D. 300-700) and then previous is taken from Greek and then is previous taken from Hebrew, 'Yeshua,' 'Yehoshua'.

This is according to The American College Dictionary.

Then in the 4th century, scribes who no longer knew or cared about the Nazarene use of the Name expanded the devices into normal Greek. This then got translated into Late Latin as 'Iesu,' and then into Old English as 'Jesus,'

The end result is a word 'Jesus' which cannot be recognized as 'Ya shua.'

It is just a lack of concern - People are ashamed to use the Real Name of Yashua / Yahoshua. There are various reasons why they are ashamed. Most simply have no scriptures for their faith, while they follow the ideology of the translators, instead of reading the Meaning of the original Manuscripts and keeping the original pronunciation of the people’s Names.

They really don’t like the People and Characters of the Bible. They just like the image the translators have created in their translations.

He saves those who call on his English pronounced name, and he himself uses the English pronounced name 'Jesus'. One day he will tell his saved his new name.