ARCHIVE - World Trade Towers Blown Up

[His_saving_Grac]

Re: Re: Re: Still waiting...

Re: Re: Re: Still waiting...

Hearty and hale, thank you!



I'd be glad to oblige, but I will be travelling on business this week so my posting may be a little erratic. If you're willing to be patient regarding my response time, carry on. Otherwise we'll have to wait until next week...

It's up to you.

I will await your return/time allotments and also carry on as I have many many people clammoring for my attention, as you can see. lol

 

[His_saving_Grac]

Saving Grace two things to consider:

1) Hypocrite - actor; in the context of Matthew 7, someone who was acting righteous, when in reality they were just as bad as the people they were condemning.

2) Who do you say that Jesus is?

Answers

1: Hypocrate was actually someone who put on anothers clothes and 'became' that person, whether real or fictional. Righteous or unrigtheous is not part of the interpretation. Paul was one of the greatest in the strict sense of being a "hypocrate". When with the Romans, he became as a roman. When with the Jews, he became as a Jew. (His own scriptural words). To do so was to practice a deception, which is why I doubt his sainthood. God doesn't need deceptions to promote his point, he has his enemy to do that. Paul convicts himself with his own words.

Jesus called them hypocrates because they made getting into heaven almost impossible (much as many churches do now) They acted like they would be the only making it in, while those they were teaching weren't worthy. They weren't "as bad" as you said. They just demanded that everyone follow the letter of the law so much that heaven was unattainable, even for them. That is why Jesus asked them which was better, holding the Sabath or saving a life on the Sabath. Who was better, those who left the supposedly "dead" body on the side of the road because it was unclean to touch the dead and therefore if you did you were 'defiled" for a prescribed time period, or to do as the Samaritan did and help the person who was NOT dead by not worrying about defilement. They were using one law to override the greater laws of God, much as most who post here do.

2. Who was Jesus? He COULD have been god in the flesh without the need of having a "virgin"birth (especially from a virgin who was born of a 'virgin') All he had to do was enter with the Holy spirit and take over the body of the Jesus baby. (Much the same way these people SAY the Holy Spirit takes them over and causes them to "speak in tongues". Talk about not reading scripture. In Acts "speaking in tongues is NOT speaking where only an interpreter can understand, but where EVERYONE understands the speaker(s) in their native tongue, no interpreter needed.)

He could be the greatest prophet. Or tied with Moses in that respect since the two have held the world rapt with God for many many millenea.

He could have been who the zealots had chosen to be the "messiah" according to scripture, which was a war-priest king from Davidic lines to give them back the lands once controlled by David/Solomon because that is the real interpretation of the biblical scripture of the prophecy that was believed by the Jewish followers, but he failed (in their eyes) because he DIDN'T start the war they wanted (and THEY started 30+ years after his death to the destruction of themselves AND Jeruselum).

This would cause the reasoning for Paul to proclaim a "new covenant" in order to keep the teachins of love alive since Jesus no longer had a Jewish following thanks to Nero and the splitting and jealousy of the Apostles (again, that is known from the scriptures).

But he wasn't God in the flesh. God proclaimed himself to himself at the river Jordan?

But did he have the knowledge of what God wanted instilled in him? Almost certainly. He knew the Mosaic law better than those who had taught it and interpreted it. He knew the SPIRIT of the law which is where we now get the expression. He knew which were the two greatest of all Gods commandments and knew that THEY overrode all others. Sort of like "Rule 1: The customer is always right. Rule 2: See rule 1." Anyone placing any other law ABOVE loving God with all your being and loving one another as you love yourself was not following the spirit, but the letter, which made Heavon unattainable.

So who was Jesus? The man who knew God as Moses did, as Elijah did, but spoke much more clearer, and told off the church leaders instead of telling off the kings. He was sent to "bring back the lost sheep of Israel" (the preists and those they taught) to the "light" of God. He left a message that has trancended the ages, and has lead those who need secrecy to look for secret interpretaions in his words. He opened Heavon up to all by taking away the literal law and replacing it with the spirit of the law, which is why the way to heaven leads through him. You can't get to Heaven through the literal interpretation, but through the spirit
of the word in which God had said it. Those who follow it literally as the lost sheep.

Someone recently attacked me because I would follow my "morals" above their interpretation of Gods word. Morals are a type of character that a person feels is correct. If they are not evil in nature, they must come from God. Satan can't (according to christian belief) have a "high moral character". So if my convictions say killing is wrong, no one can tell me God says killing one another is "good". God is all powerful (again according to beliefs) He doesn't need ME to kill. He doesn't even need ANYONE 'killed" he can just make them "cease to be" if he chooses. Anyone who doesn't accept that then can't honestly believe in Gods power to create.

 

[D__o__n]

You're in a sad state, Saving Grace; hope you realize that.

As firm as you seem to be in your beliefs and convictions, the truth is you aren't sure.

You see, I firmly believe you are wrong; Jesus declared Himself as God (I and my father are one).

Here's an easy one for you: Who knew the law, the intent, the spirit, etc. better than anyone else? The author of those laws....

How much faith does it take to know that Jesus was born of a virgin? The same amount that it takes to know that when you hit the power switch, the TV will turn on. How much faith does it take to know that He was God in the flesh? About as much as it takes to know that when you dial a number on a cell phone and hit "send," it'll ring somewhere else. How much faith does it take to know that He died and rose again? Just about the amount it takes to know that when you step out the door tomorrow, the world will still be there.

And before you say it: None of these actions are "faithless." No one hits the power switch on the TV with the thought, "It's not going to turn on." No one hits the send button on their cell phone with the thought, "the satellite crashed and burned, so this call isn't going to go through." No one steps out the door with the thought, "I'm stepping into a world that no longer exists."

Faith is that easy. We exercise it every day in millions of ways. But when it comes to saying that Jesus was born of a virgin, He is God in the flesh, He died and rose again--all of a sudden, our "faith" is practically non-existent.

Jesus Himself said that if we only had the faith of a mustard seed...which is still more than we need to turn the power switch on....

Just something for you to ponder.

As for your small explanation on morals, it begs several questions: If it is not evil it is from God? How untrue. It begs the assumption that we know exactly what good is.

How do we know exactly what good is, without a moral guideline to begin with? What you deem as "not evil" may in truth be an evil wrapped in lies--and thus, the appearance of good.

So what, pray tell, do you base your moral guideline on? From your post, it would appear that it's whatever YOU feel is correct.

 

[His_saving_Grac]

You're in a sad state, Saving Grace; hope you realize that.

Actually we are all in a sad state. You included.

As firm as you seem to be in your beliefs and convictions, the truth is you aren't sure.

No, I am sure about my convictions. I am sure I don't know everything God wants me to know. I am sure I have much to be taught, much to discover, and much to share.

You see, I firmly believe you are wrong; Jesus declared Himself as God (I and my father are one).

As you choose to believe. Remember, you are reading a text that was edited for 1600 years before anyone even dared to offer it to the public.

Here's an easy one for you: Who knew the law, the intent, the spirit, etc. better than anyone else? The author of those laws....

So? You have spoken with him? You honestly think that God can make a fruit of knowledge grow from a tree in the Garden of Eden, yet he can't put that knowledge into his prophet? He did it once before with Moses. Seems you don't believe too much in Gods power after all is said and done. I guess you can't call God omnipotent since he has limits in your mind of what he can or can not do. (Now I am NOT insulting you, but I AM trying to figure out how he can be all powerful yet has to fit everything into just what you can understand).

How much faith does it take to know that Jesus was born of a virgin

The oldest known Canonized Gospel (Mark) has no word of a virgin birth. The oldest papers written by someone who reportedly met Jesus (Paul) has NO mention of a virgin birth.

Just about the amount it takes to know that when you step out the door tomorrow, the world will still be there.

Really? I guess revelations doesn't exist for you. Good, I don't believe it either.

None of these actions are "faithless." No one hits the power switch on the TV with the thought, "It's not going to turn on." No one hits the send button on their cell phone with the thought, "the satellite crashed and burned, so this call isn't going to go through."

You must not live in California, or florida, or any other place where natural disasters make those thing happen enough that the doubt is ALWAYS present. And I really belive god should never be equated with man made devices, but that is just my opinion, no scripture that I know of behind it (well Idoltry, but that wasn't the context you were using it.)

But when it comes to saying that Jesus was born of a virgin, He is God in the flesh, He died and rose again--all of a sudden, our "faith" is practically non-existent.

I really don't understand what you were trying to say here. Could you please clarify your meaning a bot for me? Thank you very much in advance.

Jesus Himself said that if we only had the faith of a mustard seed...which is still more than we need to turn the power switch on....

LOL well the Mustard seed parable actually reads to me that he was using how the "word of God" speads. Some times on fertile soil(ears) where it grows and grows, sometimes on rock (where no one listens) and it dies, sometimes in cracks (semi-faithful) where it gets taken over by weeds (untruths and false churches)...etc. As far as I have ever heard, it was never talking about light switches or faith. It was talking about Gods word or the Kingdom of Heaven.

As for your small explanation on morals, it begs several questions: If it is not evil it is from God? How untrue. It begs the assumption that we know exactly what good is.

Wow, but YOU claim to know what good IS. THAT is why my morals ARE correct. Because I won't believe someone who says THEY know what good is, when it deals with the destuction of another soul. When GOD order deaths, he does it himself. He didn't kill Cain, he sent him out and even marked him to assure that no other people he met would kill him. God destroyed Sodom and Gamoreah. God flooded the world. God destroyed the Tower of Bable. God destroyed those following Moses in the Red Sea, or sea of Reeds, whichever is the true interpretation. God took those on passover in Egypt. He has the Power and the will to do it himself. I don't see the God of creation as a petty gamester who needs too tell Abram to sacrifice his only son that he wated centuries for. I don't see my God as one who needs to play a game with Job and destroy lives just to prove a point to his fallen Angel. That God sound alot like a teenager, which sort of proves to me that is all BS.

God knows my faith. He is supposedly omnipresent. Why does he need to test it by saying "Go forth and Kill this country because I said so!" He doesn't. If he REALLY wants them dead, doesn't he have the power to take them himself? Or is the God you believe in weaker than the one I read in the bible? He took two of my brothers. He took my Grandfather and grandmother. He almost took my son today, but gave him back to me in the emergency room. He will take the Pope. He will take every life on this land. He prescribes how long we live as a people, and how long we live as a Nation.

So are my morals against "human ordered, but God sent (lol yeah RIGHT) order to murder others because someone here says THEY know what is good and what is bad? Nope, on something this important, I sure am going to need something much better that 5 ambigiuosly used verses to support something they WANT to believe.

How do we know exactly what good is, without a moral guideline to begin with? What you deem as "not evil" may in truth be an evil wrapped in lies--and thus, the appearance of good.

Yup you are soooo right. How does that disinclude you though? Why are your moralsand beliefs not effected by what you just said, only mine are? Isn't THAT hypocritical?

So what, pray tell, do you base your moral guideline on? From your post, it would appear that it's whatever YOU feel is correct.

The falseness of belief here would make why I KNOW what I know unacceptable to you or anyone else. Just as no one will accept that any other TRUE prophet of the Lord has come since the Time of Jesus, they will also reject someone who was there for a moment before being sent back to finish a Job assigned to him by the Lord.

You see, I don't NEED a personal intervention to convince me of Gods existance, but he gave them to me anyway. 5 different times. But this is also what you hear from what most people would classify as a "nutcases".

So form your opinion as you see fit. I will continue with what I must say. Those who believe will believe. Those who don't will be the mustard seed that feel on the hard baked ground.

 

[D__o__n]

Alright; certain scripture (Old Testament) is discounted?

Namely, the passages where God directs His people to kill?

Does the term "obedience" mean anything to you?

Telling Abram to sacrifice Isaac wasn't a "game"; it was a test of obedience. Abram passed and was blessed greatly for it. And in this passage, we find the perfect picture of Christ (Gen 22:13); the ram (male sheep) caught in the thicket (thorns) by its horns (its head). The ram was sacrificed in Isaac's place, thus saving him.

Why doesn't God just instill full knowledge in all of us? Why should He? First, we're created in His image, not the same as Him. Can we comprehend and hold all knowledge? Or do we have physical or other limitations that prevent us from it?

What if the main prevention is our natural tendency to rebel?

I take the Bible--Old and New Testament--as my moral guideline. I don't trust in my own feelings, because I know that if left to itself, my inherent nature would tend towards those things that are good for me, and damn everyone else. If left to itself, my nature would define my moral guideline--as it did at one time--as "whatever doesn't hurt me." What's wrong with that? some would ask. What's wrong with it is the emphasis on self, instead of the emphasis on sacrifice of self for others.

I find nothing "whacko" about your situation at all. It's right and good to recognize that ALL miracles--big AND small--are from God.

But as I said--the easiest way to spread a lie is to mix it with truth. The only compass I use to determine what is truth and what is lie is through my moral guideline, and not myself.

 

[rapt]

"HSG":

This tortuous God Rapt discusses (as well as others) is NOT the God who personally intervened in my life. The God I worship was the one who sent the prophets. the one who sent John the Baptist. The one who sent Jesus.

Do you really suppose that you worship such a God? Which prophets are you talking about? What about what these prophets said about Him? Do you believe them?

Gen 19:24 Then the LORD rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD out of heaven ;
25
And he overthrew those cities, and all the plain, and all the inhabitants of the cities, and that which grew upon the ground.

Exodus 9:23 And Moses stretched forth his rod toward heaven: and the LORD sent thunder and hail, and the fire ran along upon the ground; and the LORD rained hail upon the land of Egypt.

Exodus 9:24 So there was hail, and fire mingled with the hail, very grievous, such as there was none like it in all the land of Egypt since it became a nation.

Numbers 11:1 And when the people complained, it displeased the LORD: and the LORD heard it; and his anger was kindled; and the fire of the LORD burnt among them, and consumed them that were in the uttermost parts of the camp.

Numbers 16:20
And the LORD spake unto Moses and unto Aaron, saying,
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Separate yourselves from among this congregation, that I may consume them in a moment.
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And they fell upon their faces, and said, O God, the God of the spirits of all flesh, shall one man sin, and wilt thou be wroth with all the congregation?
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And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
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Speak unto the congregation, saying, Get you up from about the tabernacle of Korah, Dathan, and Abiram.
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And Moses rose up and went unto Dathan and Abiram; and the elders of Israel followed him.
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And he spake unto the congregation, saying, Depart, I pray you, from the tents of these wicked men, and touch nothing of their's, lest ye be consumed in all their sins.
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So they gat up from the tabernacle of Korah, Dathan, and Abiram, on every side: and Dathan and Abiram came out, and stood in the door of their tents, and their wives, and their sons, and their little children.
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And Moses said, Hereby ye shall know that the LORD hath sent me to do all these works; for I have not done them of mine own mind.
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If these men die the common death of all men, or if they be visited after the visitation of all men; then the LORD hath not sent me.
30
But if the LORD make a new thing, and the earth open her mouth, and swallow them up, with all that appertain unto them, and they go down quick into the pit; then ye shall understand that these men have provoked the LORD.
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And it came to pass, as he had made an end of speaking all these words, the ground clave asunder that was under them:
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And the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed them up, and their houses, and all the men that appertained unto Korah, and all their goods.
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They, and all that appertained to them, went down alive into the pit, and the earth closed upon them: and they perished from among the congregation.
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And all Israel that were round about them fled at the cry of them: for they said, Lest the earth swallow us up also.
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And there came out a fire from the LORD, and consumed the two hundred and fifty men that offered incense.
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But on the morrow all the congregation of the children of Israel murmured against Moses and against Aaron, saying, Ye have killed the people of the LORD.
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And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
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Get you up from among this congregation, that I may consume them as in a moment. And they fell upon their faces.
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And Moses said unto Aaron, Take a censer, and put fire therein from off the altar, and put on incense, and go quickly unto the congregation, and make an atonement for them: for there is wrath gone out from the LORD; the plague is begun.
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And Aaron took as Moses commanded, and ran into the midst of the congregation; and, behold, the plague was begun among the people: and he put on incense, and made an atonement for the people.
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And he stood between the dead and the living; and the plague was stayed.
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Now they that died in the plague were fourteen thousand and seven hundred, beside them that died about the matter of Korah.


Isaiah 66:3b Yea, they have chosen their own ways, and their soul delighteth in their abominations.
4
I also will choose their delusions, and will bring their fears upon them; because when I called, none did answer; when I spake, they did not hear: but they did evil before mine eyes, and chose that in which I delighted not.
5
Hear the word of the LORD, ye that tremble at his word; Your brethren that hated you, that cast you out for my name's sake, said, Let the LORD be glorified: but he shall appear to your joy, and they shall be ashamed.
6
A voice of noise from the city, a voice from the temple, a voice of the LORD that rendereth recompence to his enemies.
and the hand of the LORD shall be known toward his servants, and his indignation toward his enemies.
15
For, behold, the LORD will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.
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For by fire and by his sword will the LORD plead with all flesh: and the slain of the LORD shall be many.
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They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one tree in the midst, eating swine's flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse, (hypocrits) shall be consumed together, saith the LORD.
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And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.


Jer 14:11
Then said the LORD unto me, Pray not for this people for their good.
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When they fast, I will not hear their cry; and when they offer burnt offering and an oblation, I will not accept them: but I will consume them by the sword, and by the famine, and by the pestilence.
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Then said I, Ah, Lord GOD! behold, the (false) prophets say unto them, Ye shall not see the sword, neither shall ye have famine; but I will give you assured peace in this place.
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Then the LORD said unto me, The prophets prophesy LIES IN MY NAME: I sent them not, neither have I commanded them, neither spake unto them: they prophesy unto you a false vision and divination, and a thing of nought, and the deceit of their heart.
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Therefore thus saith the LORD concerning the prophets that prophesy in my name, and I sent them not, yet they say, Sword and famine shall not be in this land; By sword and famine shall those prophets be consumed.
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And the people to whom they prophesy shall be cast out in the streets of Jerusalem because of the famine and the sword; and they shall have none to bury them, them, their wives, nor their sons, nor their daughters: for I will pour their wickedness upon them.


Jer 23:16
Thus saith the LORD of hosts, Hearken not unto the words of the prophets that prophesy unto you: they make you vain: they speak a vision of their own heart, and not out of the mouth of the LORD.
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They say still unto them that despise me, The LORD hath said, Ye shall have peace; and they say unto every one that walketh after the imagination of his own heart, No evil shall come upon you.
14
I have seen also in the prophets of Jerusalem an horrible thing: they commit adultery, and walk in lies: they strengthen also the hands of evildoers, that none doth return from his wickedness; they are all of them unto me as Sodom, and the inhabitants thereof as Gomorrah.
15
Therefore thus saith the LORD of hosts concerning the prophets; Behold, I will feed them with wormwood, and make them drink the water of gall: for from the prophets of Jerusalem is profaneness gone forth into all the land.


Hos 7:19
Behold, a whirlwind of the LORD is gone forth in fury, even a grievous whirlwind: it shall fall grievously upon the head of the wicked.


Ezek 13:15
Thus will I accomplish my WRATH upon the wall, and upon them that have daubed it with untempered morter, and will say unto you, The wall is no more, neither they that daubed it;
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To wit, the prophets of Israel which prophesy concerning Jerusalem, and which see visions of peace for her, and there is no peace, saith the Lord GOD.


Hos 8:14
For Israel hath forgotten his Maker, and buildeth temples; and Judah hath multiplied fenced cities: but I will send a fire upon his cities, and it shall devour the palaces thereof.

...the one who sent John the Baptist.

If you worship the God that sent John the Baptist, what about what John said about Him? Do you believe John?

(I didn't author these words)

Mat 3:7
But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers,who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?
8
Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance:
10
And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
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I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance. but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and (OR ELSE) with fire:
12
Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.

... The one who sent Jesus.

If you worship that God that sent Jesus, then what about what Jesus said about Him? Do you believe Jesus?

I reject RAPT'S interpretation of Jesus. You REALLY think God wants your false love through FEAR of him?

Here's "my interpretation" of Jesus, strait from scripture. If you reject these words, you're not rejecting me, or "my" interpretation, you're rejecting God's word.

I didn't author this:

Luke 12
4
And I say unto you my friends, Be not afraid of them that kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do.
5
But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him.

I don't just THINK Jesus wants us to fear God, I KNOW it. I don't just THINK there's a firey hell, I KNOW IT.

Mark 9:42
And whosoever shall offend one of these little ones that believe in me, it is better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea.
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And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
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Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
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And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
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Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
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And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:
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Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

If you claim that your god sent the prophets, John the Baptist, and Jesus, then how is it that he is so different from the things all these you mentioned spake of him? Will you deny every one of the above scriptures (along with the thousands more) that prove your concept of God is a falsehood?

The above sampling of the prophets was only a very small portion of the MANY, MANY firey judgements that can be found if one will read and BELEIVE the BIBLE. How else can one know what the prophets, John the Baptist, Jesus, or the Apostles said?? Did the Word of God come to you alone?

(My god) has the tones that the U.S.A held in the National Church in Washington yesterday.
The one who the world prayed to during ceremonies worldwide two days ago.

Hos 7:3
They make the king glad with their wickedness, and the princes with their lies.

The ecumenical "god" that the world prays to is a god of confusion. The true God is not. His way is narrow, and few ever find it. (Mat 7:13-23)
Many say "Lord lord", but are on the way to hell, because they are deceived by false prophets and their own imaginations...
because they reject God's Word.

Whoever rejects the Word of God, yet claims to accept Jesus's teaching, therefore worships "another Jesus", and embraces "another gospel". (2Cor 11:3,4; Gal 1:6-9)

... the one Rapt says will blow up everyone no matter what.
Rapts is bombing children.

Those are both blatant LIES. If I said either, you could have copied and pasted my words to prove it. You cannot, because you are a liar. All liars will have their part in the lake of fire, not in God's Kingdom (Rev 21:8). Moses, the prophets, Jesus, John the Baptist, and all the apostles say so. Your unbelief will not exempt you from the lake of fire. Faith in God's Word and repentance is your only hope. John and Jesus called them serpents and vipers that rejected the warnings of the prophets about the fire of hell, and warned them to repent. The same warning is from the prophets, John the Baptist, Christ, and the Apostles for you as well. Repent and be baptised in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of your sins, or perish with the scribes and Pharisees.

I reject the prophecies of Revelations as the Church did for 1500 years.

You reject God's word. Concerning the church rejecting it like you do, that is only more lies. You cannot prove such a statement.
If any "church" ever rejected the scriptures, it was a synogogue of Satan. The RCC can be called nothing less.

I reject the fiery hell that did NOT exist with Moses' God, but was a later invention.

I have shown above that God was a God of fiery judgment even during Moses' day, and proven you a liar. Jesus said "If they believe not Moses' writings, how shall they believe my words?" (Jn 5:45-47)

I accept Jesus Christ and his teachings.

No you don't. I have shown what Jesus Christ taught about a fiery hell which you reject, and have proven that you do NOT accept the teachings of Jesus.

I accept that there are more teachings of his (Christ) that didn't agree with Paul

Paul said, and every bible believing Christian accepts it:

1Cor 14:33
For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.
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Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law.
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And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.
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What? came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only?
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If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.

The unbelieving Jews embraced the false hope that they were not of the devil based on the fact that they were born Jews (Abraham's seed), but Jesus AND John the Baptist both told them that their hope was vain as long as they rejected the truth of God's Word. You HAVE no hope outside of the written word, sg. Nobody does. If the god you worship has morals different than the God revealed in the Word, then he is a false god, and you worship you know not what.

 

[His_saving_Grac]

well lets see then shall we???

well lets see then shall we???

Namely, the passages where God directs His people to kill

Did he? Or was that written by religious zealots like what the fantatic Muslims just did? I guess God/Allah really DID order the deaths of those on the planes, WTC, Pentegon, and all others to follow in Bin ladens Jihad (holy way). Do you see the comparissons? Why is THEIR version of the same old Testement exactly the same as ours, but our God is rights to order mass anhiliation of men, women, and children, and theirs is wrong and dispicable? Can you PLEASE tell why that is? And do not say "Ours is real, theirs isn't" because He is just as real to THEM as ours is to US.

Does the term "obedience" mean anything to you?

Yup. And I am obeying what Jesus said more than once what are the two greatest of all commandments (which you and others seem to keep forgettting yet you claim Jesus is god. They are too love god above all else and love our neighbor as we love ourselves. He stated that in two books of the New testement. Why do YOU choose to disobey them?

Telling Abram to sacrifice Isaac wasn't a "game"; it was a test of obedience

OK so God is no longer omniscent. He needed a test to prove Abram's faith. Hmmmmmm 700 years of blind obediance unrewarded with a child, then God needs to test him. Sounds like something my teenage daughter would do. Is this the same God who created the entire universe, and everything in it? That is what sunday school teachers want you to believe. I am past the area where anyone who has ever read a few pages of the bible can teach me the Old testement.

Let me ask you. After Lot and his daughters left Sodom, what happened to them? I know. It's in the Bible. Do YOU? I know it is where they STOPPED teaching the story in Sunday school.

The ram was sacrificed in Isaac's place, thus saving him

How did that "save" Issac? God has no need of animal sacrifices. He said it himself through Jesus and through the words of Paul whom you believe was an Apostle. So is the God of Jesus and Paul a DIFFERENT God than the one in the old testement? So your God demanded a sacrifice, Issac was closest, he was to be killed for God in blind obedience and then God "created" a ram instead so he could satisfy his bloodlust? I don't think so. If we follow that thought, how do you know that a son who kills his father DIDN'T do it on Gods order? You think God has no figured out that we don't need to be tested that way in our faith? Did god LEARN from that? You are lowering the power of God again.

Why doesn't God just instill full knowledge in all of us? Why should He? First, we're created in His image, not the same as Him. Can we comprehend and hold all knowledge? Or do we have physical or other limitations that prevent us from it?

Moses and Aaron could do it. Moses was a stutterer. Did you know that? God didn't fix his speach impediment, which is why God suggested Aaron do the talking. They were infused with Gods knowledge.

So was Elisha, Elija, Jeremiah, and supposedly the author of Revelations.

But who said we needed ALL his knowledge. We only need the knowledge of right and wrong, or good and evil. Yet we don't even have THAT, since my decission to not take a life is juged Good by the police, but bad by you.

What if the main prevention is our natural tendency to rebel?

Who gave us that tendency?

I take the Bible--Old and New Testament--as my moral guideline. I don't trust in my own feelings, because I know that if left to itself, my inherent nature would tend towards those things that are good for me, and damn everyone else. If left to itself, my nature would define my moral guideline--as it did at one time--as "whatever doesn't hurt me." What's wrong with that? some would ask. What's wrong with it is the emphasis on self, instead of the emphasis on sacrifice of self for others.

I do too. But your own feelings COME from what you read in literal interpretations. And you also let your chosen church (which you chose because it teaches what you also hold as true) tell you what it means. So your moral feelings ARE guiding you. These are concious decissions on your part, so you are following your personal feeling. The same book is guiding ME yet it guides me in a different direction, just as it guides the church down the street from you that you reject, and the one across town that you reject.

My moral guidelines don't go "whatever won't hurt me". I have been hurt many many times. I care nothing for my own hurts. They will pass. I care for the hurts of others, and that I am NOT the cause of them.

I find nothing "whacko" about your situation at all. It's right and good to recognize that ALL miracles--big AND small--are from God.

Good. TY

But as I said--the easiest way to spread a lie is to mix it with truth. The only compass I use to determine what is truth and what is lie is through my moral guideline, and not myself.

Yup and the Church who held the only access to the bible in book form for 1500+ years had every opportunity to add their own "truths", including an ending to Mark that went with the Books of Matthew and Luke. They also added a virgin birth that Mark and Paul know nothing about. The gave us the beautiful manger scene that doesn't exist in the bible. Why did Herod kill all childeren 2 and under? Because the Magi had been foolowing the star that NO ONE ELSE COULD SEE for a little less than 2 years. Do you think he was STILL in that manger when they showed up?

Joseph and Mary fled with the Babe to Egypt (again to fulfill prophecy). Why? God couldn't protect his fleshly born son? He could strike cities dead with a word, yet he couldn't protect his own son?

He then told them to come back, but then changed plans because Herods son (who had John the Baptist beheaded) was now in charge so he went to Nazareth instead?

Then for 30+ years, Jesus did nothing about teaching the word that was in him? NOTHING? He went into the mundane craft of Carpentry?

And once he DID start to do his Miracles, he found out he couldn't do even ONE in his home town? (He called himself a "prophet" not God Son)

So who set your moral guideline? Which scripture passages? I will show you mine that set me on my path. Where are the ones that are the foundation of your belief?

 

[His_saving_Grac]

Rapt my friend.

Rapt my friend.

Do you really suppose that you worship such a God? Which prophets are you talking about? What about what these prophets said about Him? Do you believe them?

I believe in the one who sent Jesus. If Jesus says turn the other cheek, and you claim he is God, am I wrong to obey that? If Jesus says to forgive your brother seventy times seven, should I say "NO"? I Jesus says to Go and talk any problems you have with your brother before bringing it to Christ, should I say "that's wrong"?

If I were to follow some of the things you and some others have said, I would have to ignore those commands. That is the area I am at.

I am not going to quote all your scriptures, but let you re-read them and see that theses are GOD doing the punishment, not me. He has the power, which is what I stated all along. If he wants a race dead, he will destroy them. He has no need of me to help in that killing. Only the JiHad supporters have taken it upon themselves to do it, as well as other religious fanatics such as Hitler, Joan of Arc, and all the rest who claim to need the "holy war". They believe we are evil because of our decadent lifestyles, the anti Paul way our women dress, the way we flaunt our luxeries. All this is part of the 7 deadly sins. So are they RIGHT do attempt to exterminate us? I say no, but you are basically saying yes, but with us doing it to them.

If you worship the God that sent John the Baptist, what about what John said about Him? Do you believe John?

John the Baptist questioned Jesus from prison before he was beheaded. He wasn't sure and only in the later written gospels did he all of the sudden proclaim Jesus. The qutes are very ambiguous to say the least. Again, John was proclaimg the war-priest king. Jesus wasn't him, so it has to be God,

But tell me. If John was such a great prophet, why is so little of the bible written about him? He proclaimed himself Elijah by how he chose to live. Elijah HAD to come for the messiah to come as per prophecy. Did GOD proclaim John as a prophet? Not a good one since nothing survives of his prophecies.

I see you mention the water baptism. It seems all are mis-informed on how the baptisms were done in those days.

The inductee (person to be baptised) was to shed all their close on the shore and walk naked into the river. The priest (JB in this case) then spoke a certain ordained prayer. He would dip the person under the water, and this symbolism was to wash away the old person, and the one who was raised was to be entirely new, cleaned for sin and the desire from sin. It had to be a mental mindset that you were no longer (Bob) but now a new name. The spirit was to enter you and fhelp you fight off the fleshly desires. Once you came ashore, you were given a pure white robe, and it was up to you to keep it pure white and yourself pure white.

None of that happens anymore. Most baptisms are done to gain membership into the Church, or in the Catholic belief, to insure babies who may die are assured a place in heaven. You are fully dressed and the robe is on you BEFORE entering the water. They only say "I baptise you in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost" That is NOT the prayer used then.

If you worship that God that sent Jesus, then what about what Jesus said about Him? Do you believe Jesus?

About WHO? God? Yes, when I find his unaduterated word. Where are you going with this?

Nice quotes from Mark. I have read them. I also know the proper words that were used, and hell wasn't it. hell is a gentile word from a gentile religion (Greco/Roman).

As I have said before, none of the gospel writers were jewish Christians, nor his Apostles. If they were, they sure wouldn't have refered to themselves as "the Jews" in the third person. So this was written by a gentile christian. It has been dated to 20-50 years after Jesus death. Read the book "The Secrets of Mt Sinai". It will give you great insight into the bible that was preached in the late 4th century (and is almost perfect compared to the Codex the vatican has in it's possession for a bit later that same century." It shows where changes were made to the text of the New Testement by scribes of later dates and how they ar now part of the bible WE read.

If you claim that your god sent the prophets, John the Baptist, and Jesus, then how is it that he is so different from the things all these you mentioned spake of him? Will you deny every one of the above scriptures (along with the thousands more) that prove your concept of God is a falsehood?

He isn't different. What is different is how YOU read those words. What also is different is the scripture to the contrary. You didn't post it, only the ones that support your side. Where are the beautitudes? The sermon on the mount?

You see, I am saved. I have no need to fear him. Your scripture is for those who deny him. God has already extended my time on earth at least 20 years. His latest was just this past January. Fear NEVER equates to Love. It equals fear. If he wants my fear, he can never have my freely given love. THAT is what God wants more than anything from us. Our love just as a babe loves their parents. And for us to share that love to all who will accept it.

Did the Word of God come to you alone

His word for ME sure did. Hasn't he spoke to you? He will if you clear your mind of all distractions, open the bible and start reading. Don't LOOK for meaning, just let whatever is you problem in your life be the only thought in your mind. The let him guide your hands to what he wants to say to YOU and YOU alone. Doing it the first time is the hardest. After that, it becomes very simple. And guess what? I am doing what god wants by asking you to read the bible not for the stories, but to find HIM. He is there. Find him. Become as a babe.

The ecumenical "god" that the world prays to is a god of confusion. The true God is not.

You have proof? You have determined which is the true church from the book of Revelations?

Those are both blatant LIES

No, they are not. The second one is either missing a word, or I forgot where I was going so to THAT I sincerely appologise. You are NOT bombing children. But you are ADVOCATING it. Check your posts and you will see.

You cannot, because you are a liar. All liars will have their part in the lake of fire, not in God's Kingdom (Rev 21:8). Moses, the prophets, Jesus, John the Baptist, and all the apostles say so. Your unbelief will not exempt you from the lake of fire. Faith in God's Word and repentance is your only hope. John and Jesus called them serpents and vipers that rejected the warnings of the prophets about the fire of hell, and warned them to repent. The same warning is from the prophets, John the Baptist, Christ, and the Apostles for you as well. Repent and be baptised in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of your sins, or perish with the scribes and Pharisees.

Once again you seek to gain my belief through fear. Why do you feal fear is the best way to Love God? You honestly think he is so stupid not to see through the deception and know the love and conversion isn't true, but a falseness done through fear? That train of though is what is destroying christianity worldwide, and don't let anyone decieve you, it IS dying. The proof has been in the news.

I won't love through fear. I do love for love. I have my belief. It differs from yours. I did copy and paste your words, but in response to YOU, not to someone else. You never answered that thread (yet)

No you don't. I have shown what Jesus Christ taught about a fiery hell which you reject, and have proven that you do NOT accept the teachings of Jesus.

No, you didn't. In Jesus time, the fiery hell was a place in the desert where a certain pagan tribe tortured and burned and sacrificed humans. Jesus believed in Sheol. That is the place all souls go until the rapture. It is a place of timelessness. The firey hell was added to later texts. Again, go and read church history. They themselves admit it.

I have shown above that God was a God of fiery judgment even during Moses' day, and proven you a liar. Jesus said "If they believe not Moses' writings, how shall they believe my words?"

LMHO No you didn't but you sure abuse that word. Again, look into church HISTORY. Does the thought that you will be wrong scare you? Do not condemn lest ye be condemed. The truth is waiting for all to read. You must choose whether to read it or not. If you don't you are showing you believe you already know all and can not learn more about God or jesus from anywhere else. THAT is why christianity is in it direst crises ever. People who quit "seeking" per the order of jesus. People who say "God" inspired those to canonize the texts in our accepted bibles, and will dismiss other gospels that fill in many of the blanks. Gospels KNOWN to be written by those who were with Jesus from dating and writing styles.

Paul said, and every bible believing Christian accepts it:

A very broad statement. Untrue of course, and unprovable. All I need to show you is one. YOU have to show that everyone does. I can show you many churches who now reject Paul ever actually met the ressurected Christ. Again, just go and read the book of Acts.

If the god you worship has morals different than the God revealed in the Word, then he is a false god, and you worship you know not what.

Again you help me laugh. Thank you.
Let me ask you. Is the God of the Old Testement the same God of the NEw? If He is, why did he need a new Covenent? Why did Jesus ORDER his apostles to not enter the lands of the Gentiles, nor the city of Samaria? Why did he say he did not come to save all people, just the lost lambs of Israel? Why did he tell the woman about how he was there not for her but for his people? (the dog and scrap discussion)? Why did this same god say "You have heard and eye for an eye, but I say if he should smite you, turn the other cheek so he may smite that too. And if he ask for your robe, give him your coat also? THIS doesn't sound like the same God. So which is real? Well you need the scary one to keep your faith. You NEED him to punish those you deem wicked. You need the threat of fire so you can think that your good work will set you above those who disagree with your beliefs reguardless of their good works.

My God? My God sent his prophet to say the two greatest commandments of them all are to Love thy Lord God with all thine heart, and to love thy neighbor as you love yourself. This came straight from Jesus. it seems to override ANY other commandments, unless you reject Jesus saying that or that Jesus had any connection with God.

My God didn't infuse me with zealot rage. He infused me with paitient wisdom. He taught me restraint. He taught me love without fear. He is your God too reguardless of your convitions.

My God will decide my eternity. And I don't care what it is, becuse he already instilled in me a great calm and peace with Him. He has already blessed me more than I EVER deserved. I have no need of a mansion in Heaven. I have no need of Gold roads or pearly gates. I have everything I need. You take the mansion. I will take my children and the unaduterated joy they give me each and every breath I take.

You are seeking god for your rewards, and to avoid the punishments. I am seeking all his words to continue the love and peace he has bestowed on me. He will let me know everything I need to know. And he will do the same for you. Just read the bible again. Start anywhere. Open your heart to God, and forget the words there. He will come. And you will know. You think you have joy now? Let THAT happen just ONCE. God is addictive. Enjoy Him.

 

[geralduk]

Re: That's justice for over 50,000 dead Americans?

Re: That's justice for over 50,000 dead Americans?

Nuke em! Everyone of those countries dancing in the streets laughing at us.The only way to deal with an evil force is to meet it with force.
I like what General Patton said," Your not here to die for your country, but your here to see the other bastard dies for his!" I couldn't agree more.

For we fight not against flesh and blood but againts principalaties and powers.
The arm of flesh will fail
The battle is not to the strong or the mighty
For the weaponds of our warfare are NOT carnal but are mighty through God for the pulling down strong holds....
If ANY good is to come out of this and thoose responsable are to be justly dealt with then christians should be praying,not for revenge; thats Gods domain,but that rightousness will prevail and Gods will be done and His kingdom come,for everything will be shaken that can be shaken so that that which canot be shake will remain.
IT is interesting that Afganastan is the doorway to the middle east and china.It has been prphisied i scripture that God will draw out Russia like a bull by its nose,If this man in Afganastan is responsable and well hidden he is not hid from God and i will be by prayer that he will be found.but let us pray aright! not accordig to our lusts but to the will of God and if we do not lknow what to pray the Holy Spirit will give us what to pray for with groanings that cannot be uttered(see the account where"Jesus wept)
The battles that are ahead need to be fought in and by prayer first so that the RIGHT battles may be fought on earth.

ho knows where this is al going to end? but what we do know that the rapture is now closer than ever and we should be ready.

 

[geralduk]

Re: Let the sides stand together!

Re: Let the sides stand together!

On this most unthinkable day in history.......let the sides stand together. Let the christians, pagans, jews, atheists, homosexuals, heterosexuals, and all others........let us all stand together as one. Let the differences lay down......let us all send them our hope. More people then ever in my current life need hope more then ever. So lay down your hate, bias, and opinions. Even if we all don't believe the same, let us stand as one, humans, together. And let us help the hurt.

Namaste.

We should look at the story of Ahab for the answer to that.
the world is heading for a one world state and religion and this situation will be used to further that end.
Those who have untill now rejected the Word and Gods way of salvation should have even more reason to repent for the days ahead are going to get worse.For everything that can be shaken will be shaken so that that whic cannot be shaken wil remain.
So all those who you say christians should align themselves with should in fact be reversed and men everywhere need to repent and in a sense align themselves with christians!

 

[geralduk]

Warning, my brethren in Christ.

Don't let this tragedy be used to further a one world government, either.

Don't ask me to stand shoulder-to-shoulder with someone who does not believe that Christ is the only way to God, and don't expect me to give a false impression that living a life of sin is okay by shouting "down with the terrorists!" with the homosexuals.

In this time of tragedy, more than anything else, realize that WE ALL NEED GOD!!!

Working alongside a homosexual fireman or soldier for that matter is not what is meant here.
But a christain CANNOT join himself ;be of one mind or (read the story of Ahab) as in that story his ways are your way and where he shall go you shall go etc.
neither can he or should do Join in echumenical one world religion services where there are 'men' who do not worship God in spirit or truth.
There is a UNITY that is forbidden in scripture and that is what is being called for here and elsehwere. in our grief and turmoil we should still keep a clear head ruled by the Spirit of God not the fury and heated passions that are of the flesh not of the spirit.
That a homosexual for example or a muslim for that matter cannot feel greived and upset by what has happened is not sugested but a christian first and formost is seeking FIRST the kingdo of God and HIS rightousness.that HIS WILL BE DONE ON EARTH AS IT IS IN HEAVEN. In other words the aim and purpose is or should be different than those who are not born again.

I hope you dont mind me puttting this here as i saw a number of replies to you to the contrary to what you said so ...

 

[geralduk]

Re: The problem is...

Re: The problem is...

The problem is that you refuse to see any other way to God, or even to see that maybe there is no path to God at all. Until you are willing to accept others may think differently, there is no point in you discussing anything on these forums. If you can't even understand how someone would dissagree with you or accept that you might be wrong, you won't discuss anything, just randomly shout out your opinions. That won't change anyone's minds, just affirm your self-righteousness.

I give,or rather everyman has the right to his or her opinion,but concerning God or spiritual truth which i understand to be eternal and cannot be inconsistant an opinion is useless you need FACTS!
All the religions of this world CANNOT be true for in thier details there are oposed in their 'doctrins'
The ONLY cosistant thing in them all(apart from true christianity)
is that they are a relgion of works;ie:0 yo have to do things or refrain from doing them to be rightous or be acceptable to God.
Sitting on a fence does nor help you come to a conclusion about ANYTHING.Let alone about God.
I can pefectly understand someone disagreeing with me and can discuss and do so; often listening more carefully they they do to me more often than not.
You said that i should accept i might be right or wrong!!??
How unsatisfactory a situation can you get!
But scripture tell us we should BE FULLY PERSAUDED of the truth.
For i say this if we do not know or uderstand the truth we cannot have faith in God.Does that mean we have to know ALL the truth?
No,But concernoing the nature and character and dispostion of God IT is vital! Scripture tells us to "TASTE AND SEE THAT GOD IS GOOD."
I do solemnly testify and give witness to the fact that i HAVE tasted ;and found God to be GOOD.DOES that meen that I know everything about God? No,I have not swam across the sea but i do know it is WET! and you can swim i it!
concerning those religions: there are may faiths in this world and there is "THE FAITH that was once for ALL delivered to the saints"
Cain and Able were both men who sought God,who both built an alter to God and both brought a sacrafice.Ables though was accepted by God while Caines was rejected.Why? Able offered that which God had all ready lain down as being acceptable to Him
and which Able accepted and by faith offered.
Caine on the other hand offered what was right in his own eyes and offered the works of his own hands,and in consequence rejected;nevertheless was given time to repent,but while talking with Able rose up and slew him.
In the final analysis what man considers will do, is worthless and at worse FATAL, for in the things of God you need to know the TRUTH! and kowing the truth the truth makes you free.

 

[geralduk]

Re: Oh that was good

Re: Oh that was good

That was a good quote and good timing for this situation.

The problem is, the bible contradicts itself so much they can just quote it a hundred more times saying the exact opposite.

In over 20 years of reading the bible,those things that seem to contradict each other usualy means you have to dig DEEPER and pray harder to find out why.
The bible i have ALWAYS found to be totally reliable.
what i find intersting is how much people read it to find suposed faults rather than to seek the truth!
No sincere person seeking God hungry for rightousnes and the truth and determined to find both! has goe away empty handed.

 

[geralduk]

I believe there are going to be some who at the return of CHRIST, are going to be shocked at seeing the lake that will be 200 miles long and about 4 feet deep. This will be a lake of blood and body parts. I can almost hear them now saying I thought GOD was a loving GOD. How could HE do such a thing. I will tell you how, it's called justice. When GOD THE LORD JESUS returns he will personally kill all that are alive on the earth that have rejected him. This will be the most horrific sight that you can imagine. There we will be no unsaved that will enter the 1000 year kingdom. PEACE, but not yet.

I presume you are refering to the book of Revalation?Where it is recorded that God will vengence for all the rightous blood that has been spilt since the foundation of the world.
I think refering to the battle of Armageddon.
That battle will be terrible indeed.
There will be unsaved during the 1000 year riegn of Christ,for we read that Jesus will rule the nations with a rod of iron.In other words they will HAVE to conform to his rule or face judgements.
Then after the 1000 years,satan will be loosed for a season(he had been bound in the pit remember?)and men will once again be given the opertunity to repent(thye have enjoyed the rightous and just rule of Christ over all the earth)theere will be those who will be rebell and wage war.then comethe the end.
Those who are saved afer the millenium are the GLEANINGS.those saved during the Great Tribulation is tha main harvest,and those cought up in the rapture are the first fruits of the harvest Holy unto God.

 

[D__o__n]

Thanks, Gerald!

 

[D__o__n]

Saving Grace, you've got a lot to answer; bear with me. (mostly my fault for not keeping my responses short to begin with)

Why is THEIR version of the same old Testement exactly the same as ours, but our God is rights to order mass anhiliation of men, women, and children, and theirs is wrong and dispicable?

Because there was a change in the plan. Not a change in God, but a change in the plan.

Consider this; it's only an analogy, and as such, especially in this case, is weak; but it's about the only way I know to explain this. Patton once set up a trap for Rommel; he read Rommel's book(s) on tactics, and knew that Rommel was a stickler for his own strategies. So Patton set up an ambush accordingly. Sure enough, Rommel entered the trap--exactly as Patton knew he would. The quote was, "Rommel, you magnificent _____, I read your book!"

Now, even though Patton knew what Rommel was going to do, his own troops had to be in place; his own troops had certain jobs to do; his own troops had certain actions that had to be performed.

Now, as for how this analogy applies, God is omniscient. He knows how things are going to turn out. But His creations still have to be in place; have certain jobs to do; have certain actions that must be performed in order for the end result to be obtained.

This is a very hard concept, and almost abstract; but it ultimately relies on the concept of free will. You have the free will to act as you do; Abram had the free will to refuse to sacrifice Isaac.

Hopefully, without being too obtuse, this answered several of your questions.

Why was the animal sacrifice necessary? Because of the covenant that was in effect at that time. The change in plan came with the change in the covenant. You see, God changed the covenant for us. We couldn't keep our end of the bargain. It just wasn't working. We kept adding things, and making the covenant of no effect; like you said earlier, we could no longer make it work. So God changed it, and gave His Son to be crucified on the cross (the last blood sacrifice). NOW animal sacrifices were no longer of any effect, for what animal could equal the Son of God?

I was quite aware that Moses was a stutterer; he was also a murderer. But God used him anyway (which just goes to show that no matter how low you think you are, God can use you anyway, something I teach my teen classes). However, please provide the support that shows that he was "infused" with knowledge.

Who gave us that tendency?

No one gave it to us; we were given free will. We just ended up choosing to use that to do things that we were told not to.

These are concious decissions on your part, so you are following your personal feeling.

Beg to differ. You're making an assumption based on what you believe is fact.

Fact is, I read. I choose a church because it follows what I know the Bible to say. If I attend a church, and I hear the people say that women must wear long dresses and hats, I leave, because all I can find in the Bible is that women should dress like women (Deuteronomy) and that they should dress modestly (Timothy, one or two other places). They've instituted a man-made doctrine. This has nothing to do with "feeling," which is emotion-based. It has everything to do with what the Bible says.

And incidentally, I hope you realize that I'm only discussing this with you; I have no delusions that I or anyone else can change your mind. Only the Holy Spirit can convict and work a change in us. Sometimes, we just happen to be the instruments used.

Do you think he was STILL in that manger when they showed up?

Nope. Scripture clearly tells us that when the wise men found the child (not babe), he was living in a house.

Then for 30+ years, Jesus did nothing about teaching the word that was in him? NOTHING? He went into the mundane craft of Carpentry?

And once he DID start to do his Miracles, he found out he couldn't do even ONE in his home town? (He called himself a "prophet" not God Son)

Nope; scripture also tells us that at age 12, he was teaching the religious leaders. That scripture is silent for the most part really tells us nothing. All we can do is speculate; but the best answer probably lies in the 70 weeks of Daniel (i.e., Christ was biding His time in order to fulfill scripture).

As for not one miracle in his home town, well, it was predicted in Isaiah, and He echoed it Himself: His own home town wouldn't recognize Him.

Finally:

He stated that in two books of the New testement. Why do YOU choose to disobey them?

First, it was also echoed at least once in an epistle by Paul (Romans). I disobey nothing. There is a difference between "hating" and simply disassociating myself with what is considered evil-doing. And you're still making assumptions. You've assumed that since I said don't ask me to stand shoulder-to-shoulder with homosexuals and people who don't believe in God, that I "hate" them. I humbly submit to you that you should read Gerald's explanation. I simply choose not to give the appearance of calling wrong right, and right wrong. If your moral compass compels you to believe that I'm wrong, then you're going to have to come up with some strong evidence to show me that I'm wrong.

 

[rapt]

HSG:

...all your scriptures...are GOD doing the punishment, not me. He has the power, which is what I stated all along. If he wants a race dead, he will destroy them.

You have grossly contradicted what you've been saying all along by the above statement, and all one need do is re-read your diatribes against the true God and against His word to see it.

You claim to choose to "see", but you refuse to see that you contradict your own words, let alone the Word of God, so it's obvious that since you smorgasbord through the word of God, picking out what you choose and rejecting the rest, that you are "proud, knowing nothing" (1Tim 6:3-5). You profess yourself to be wise, but scripture proves you to be anything but wise (Rom 1:18-32).

You continue to falsely accuse me and imply that I ever said that we need to help God kill who He wants to kill. I never said any such thing. I know that Jesus said His servants DONT fight with sword (or bomb) (Jn 18:36). I don't believe in killing anyone; that's God's job (Rom 12:19). You seem confused on that point. VERY confused. First you present a god that never hurts anyone, then you contradict yourself and say He punishes and can kill whom He will. Get stable. God is not a God of confusion. Jesus Christ is the Son of the God of the Old Testament, and He is eternal.

Jesus SAID He is the Son of God, contrary to what you say (John 10:36)

So are they RIGHT do attempt to exterminate us? I say no, but you are basically saying yes, but with us doing it to them.

You haven't got a clue WHAT you are talking about, do you? You're not taking your ideas from anything I said, that's for sure. You're as confused about what I said as you are about what Jesus or any bible writer said.

Get the beam out.

First you say you believe in the God that sent John the Baptist, but then you show that you don't even believe that he was God's prophet, or even what scripture shows that John proclaimed. You reject even Christ's declaration about John:

But tell me. If John was such a great prophet, why is so little of the bible written about him? He proclaimed himself Elijah by how he chose to live. Elijah HAD to come for the messiah to come as per prophecy. Did GOD proclaim John as a prophet? Not a good one since nothing survives of his prophecies.
John was proclaimg the war-priest king. Jesus wasn't him

John said "Behold, the Lamb of God that taketh away the sins of the world" when he saw Jesus. Does that sound anything like he was proclaiming a "war-priest king" like the Jews expected?

You claim to believe Jesus Christ, but Jesus said this about John:

Mat 11:9 But what went ye out for to see? A prophet? yea, I say unto you, and MORE THAN A PROPHET.
10
For this is he, of whom it is written, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee.
11
Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women THERE HATH NOT RISEN A GREATER (PROPHET) THAN JOHN THE BAPTIST...
13
For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John.
14
And if ye will receive it, this is Elias, which was for to come.
15
He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.

Do you have ears to hear Jesus?

 

[rapt]

geralduk:

For we fight not against flesh and blood but againts principalaties and powers.
The arm of flesh will fail
The battle is not to the strong or the mighty
For the weaponds of our warfare are NOT carnal but are mighty through God for the pulling down strong holds....
If ANY good is to come out of this and thoose responsable are to be justly dealt with then christians should be praying,not for revenge; thats Gods domain,but that rightousness will prevail and Gods will be done and His kingdom come,for everything will be shaken that can be shaken so that that which canot be shake will remain.

If this man in Afganastan is responsable and well hidden he is not hid from God and i will be by prayer that he will be found.but let us pray aright! not accordig to our lusts but to the will of God and if we do not lknow what to pray the Holy Spirit will give us what to pray for with groanings that cannot be uttered(see the account where"Jesus wept)

AMEN, geralduk, to that part of your post!

I agree too that Christians are not to align themselves with evildoers and their false gods. True unity will never come about among confusion of doctrines about who God is and what His gospel is.

 

[PENIEL]

His_saving_Grac

His_saving_Grac

Could you please give me a Reference to your statement that the

baptised people took all their clothes off before being baptised by

John the Baptist .
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I see you mention the water baptism. It seems all are mis-informed on how the baptisms were done in those days.

The inductee (person to be baptised) was to shed all their close on the shore and walk naked into the river. The priest (JB in this case) then spoke a certain ordained prayer.
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And also, a reference for the Tribe that Burnt people in the

Wilderness as a reference for Hell..

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In Jesus time, the fiery hell was a place in the desert where a certain pagan tribe tortured and burned and sacrificed humans.
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Thanks .

 

[rapt]

Peniel,

You'll get those answers when people start flying donkeys to avoid being hijacked by terrorists!