ARCHIVE - World Trade Towers Blown Up

[Zakath]

]So you think Paul didn't judge "them that are without" when they came to pervert the truth with their lies?

Think again.

Beware lest ye be found to fight against God as well, o ye devils that despise His Word.

Slow down, laddie! All I did was quote from your Bible, I didn't write it. If you don't like it, take it up with the translators.

I don't despise any man's scripture nearly so much as I despise hypocritical fundamentalists who misuse it to butcher innocents and bind humans with fear.

Before you threaten anyone claiming to speak for your god, let's try a little test Rapt, to see if he cares as much as you seem to think he does...

Step right up. Which one of you slaves of YHWH is going to be the first to curse this no-good, filthy, blaspheming atheist blind by the power of their god? Will it be you, Rapt? Someone else??? Give it your best shot.

(Note - it's been tried before without effect.)

 

[PENIEL]

ODE TO THE FALLEN

ODE TO THE FALLEN

Lam 2:21 The young and the old lie on the ground in the streets:

my virgins and my young men are fallen .

Lam 2:22 Thou hast called as in a solemn day my terrors round

about, none escaped nor remained:

those that I have swaddled and brought up hath mine

enemy consumed.

 

[Amadis]

Any Western nation's government -- whether putatively Christian or not -- is likely to be made up of at least a smattering of Christians. It is not at all incongruous that they should participate in the legitimate functions of government, one of which is to punish unto death those who perpetrate violent evil.

I have no problem envisioning a thoroughly Christian hangman, in other words -- a man who would never in a million years take the life of another person on his own, but who would perform his duties of execution with the clear conscience of a man who sees clearly the distinction between the state's responsibilities, and the individual's. If I may serve as a juror, then I may serve as a commando, both being (within their respective spheres) necessary roles in a government that seeks to follow God's directives on flailing wrongdoers.

Many Christians took part in the bombing of Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan in World War II, and fought hand to hand with the enemies of their country. These were sincere believers who realized that the call of the government on that occasion was justified, and that Caesar needed to be accorded what was legitimately his. CS Lewis makes the point, however, that a Christian airman in the Second World War would have been called upon by his convictions to refuse to bomb purely civilian targets. Bombing fascist soldiers would have been an act designed to restore peace to the world, while decimating civilians would have been merely cruel.

 

[His_saving_Grac]

Saving grace: >>To be a hypocrate is to be a greek actor. That is what a hypocrate was.<<

It's no wonder you can't understand Don if that's the depth of your understanding of the word hypocrit.

It's no wonder you don't understand me when I wrote what the origin of the word is. What the CHURCH says it is now means nothing to me. It is a blatently overuse cliche by anyone as a defense for their religion and for personal attacks on any who disagrees.

I will ignore your scriptural quotes just as you ignore the 40-50 times Jesus himself told us not to judge. You are an Enyart follower, and their is no repentance in those who follow his ways. You choose to blind yourself. I choose to see.

 

[His_saving_Grac]

With all this judgement scripture flying around, don't forget Paul's instruction, the one that is most applicable for you religionists...

- I Cor. 5:12-13

If the apostle Paul says it wasn't any of his business, why do so many Christians today try to make judgements of those outside their religion their business?

I know. Almost enough to turn a christian into an atheist because at least most atheists choose to follow a personal creed that doesn't injure or kill others unlike the majority of those who want to claim christianity as their religion of choice.

 

[His_saving_Grac]

Saving Grace:



I'll give you just one: Faith.

And if that ain't enough--then there's nothing that will help you.

Well, how about I explain my position then? I accept the (commonly accepted as we find it today) Bible as the inspired Word of God. I accept it as verbal plenary and conceptually inspired.

Based on that, I look at the writings of James, and Peter, and John (in the commonly accepted as we find it today writings), and find that the teachings, while not word-for-word, are echoed by Paul.

Hope that explains it a little more.

Faith huh? Well that is what I have been using my entire life. It's when someone wants to throw scripture around that I lose my faith. Especially when that scripture goes against my morals.

I will explain my position. I know that the New Testement as we read it is different than what was written in the 4th century. I know that the Authors of the Gospels were NONE of the Apostles of those names chosen by Jesus. I know 8 of 14 books attributed to Paul were written by unknown people. I know the book of Revelations wasn't canonized ontil the 16th century. I know the 2nd book of Peter wasn't written by Peter the Apostle. I know that Moses DID NOT write the first 5 books of the bible as we were taught. I know the was NO coat of many colors (It said a red robe) I know that many books taught all over in early churches were banned by later churches, so it was devine, then it wasn't devine, then it was, then it wasn't. I know that when you read about the apostles quoting "scripture" as in "the scripture says..." they are NOT talking about the New Testement because IT WASN'T WRITTEN. So I know that the infallibility of the bible according to scripture does NOT include the New Testement as scripture since it didn't exist.

So what IS echoed? Well re-written books, that were carefully edited over the centuries and the proof of that is held in two major hands available for all to see. Books that were accepted as devine, then voted as not devine. A completely new ending to the book of Mark after chapter 16:8 (which is where the book ends originally.

And I see people with preconceptions quoting scripture and context in 20 different ways and all condemning the other to Hellfire and brimstone for NOT believing THEM above all others.

I also see atheists come to this forum and laugh at christians for acting like ignorant children throwing fits over what they "know" while they really "know" nothing, only God does. I see atheist come here and leave saying, "I am SSSOOOOO glad I am not a christian!"

And I see people who swear they have tried all forms of religion deny wanting to read the bible as it was written and taught in the 4th century, or the Jewish Torah from which we got our Old Testement, or the other so called 'apocryphal' books the Roman church decided wasn't good enough for teaching but were considered "devinely written" for centuries. But because the Church told us they aren't, now we are wrong to read them or believe in their devinity.

I love God. I love Jesus and what he taught. There are more things he wants us to know that we have hidden from us. I will keep seeking him in every way I can. But one thing that DOES bother me. I don't see Him on this board very often at all. I see our ENEMY here all the time posing as christians, but not Him often.

So I talk on the boards. I point out other places to find what was once deemed devine scripture. I try and get into non violent discourses with as many people as possible. When they ask my view, I answer. I don't expect them to change, but I hope someone will find Christ through something that is said in the discussion. And I pray that some christian won't leave God because of the childish fighting seen by those claiming Christ as their deity.

 

[rapt]

"saving grace" spews vomit thinking he "KNOWS" anything

"saving grace" spews vomit thinking he "KNOWS" anything

Saving grace:

I will ignore your scriptural quotes just as you ignore the 40-50 times Jesus himself told us not to judge.

Quote them for us, all 40-50 of them, if they exist, and I will not ignore them.

How can you ignore ANY scripture, regardless of who quotes them?

Just be honest. You don't believe them either way, do you?

You are an Enyart follower, and their is no repentance in those who follow his ways. You choose to blind yourself. I choose to see.

You are who has choosen blindness. I follow no one but Christ. I don't even KNOW Enyart. You IMAGINE THINGS like a bunch of scriptures that don't exist, and make false statements like that I am an Enyart follower. Prove your statements or keep your lies to yourself.

Liars make statements they cannot support.

Almost enough to turn a christian into an atheist

If you can so smugly claim that I or Christ made statements we never made, it's no wonder you are ready to become an atheist. Liars and atheists are not in submission to the Word of God, and hold their own imaginations above God's Word. They make the Word of God of none effect by unbelief just such as yours.

It's when someone wants to throw scripture around that I lose my faith. Especially when that scripture goes against MY morals.

(color, bold, caps mine)

This blasphemous statement shows your disdain for the Word of God and your proud exaltation of your own imagination above It, as if YOUR morals are more holy than Gods! (2Thes 2:4)

No scripture is immoral. If any scripture is against YOUR "morals", then it's YOU that's in need of change, not the scripture.

After I read what you call "your position" (your gross diatribe about all you "KNOW" [...ahem]), and then how you followed it up with your unwitting self condemnation:

I also see atheists come to this forum and laugh at christians for acting like ignorant children throwing fits over what they "know" while they really "know" nothing, only God does. I see atheist come here and leave saying, "I am SSSOOOOO glad I am not a christian!"

...it became apparant that you don't know ANYTHING, but that you're just another wolf in sheep's clothing; just another perverter of scripture; an ANTICHRIST like John warned us about.

Get thee hence Satan


.

 

[His_saving_Grac]

Enjoy rapt

Enjoy rapt

I choose not to join into your war of words. I choose to keep my loving vision of christ and I choose to reject your hateful version of him. There is nothing else to say.

I am SO sick of supposed christians having nothing better to do but scream insults at others.

Guess what. If YOU follow Jesus, and what you are doing is right, then I would have to choose his enemy over your version of christianity. If my god can't be a loving God with loving followers, then I want nothing to do with YOUR God, because the GOD you follow is hateful, angry, and all around disgusting. I am SO glad that YOUR God does not really exist.

LOL I am the ANTI-CHRIST!!!!!!! HURRAYYYYYYYY FOR ME.

I have met ignorant people before. I am VERY glad I will never meet you.

 

[rapt]

You will meet my God, like it or not. THEN you will know what "love" is, and that you had blasphemed it, and chosen darkness in it's place, and called darkness "love".

 

[His_saving_Grac]

You will meet my God, like it or not. THEN you will know what "love" is, and that you had blasphemed it, and chosen darkness in it's place, and called darkness "love".

LMHO yeah whatever Rapt. Once again it's the case of "if you don't believe as I do hten your condemned and going to Hell because I say so. I hope you enjoy saying so.

Lets see, you say to use the death penaly and decide ourselves who deserves it. That is YOUR God's love. My God rejects that we are smart enough to know ALL the truth and leave all judgement in the hands of the only one who knows all. Yep, that MUST be satan. Satan HATES death, remember? He would NEVER want us to kill each other. Only GOD would.(Hear the HEAVY sarcasm????)

YOU know me and call me a liar. Whatever. Nice to see how loving YOUR God taught you.

I would bet you my soul against yours that your own church leader (IF you go to church) would reject your own statements on this board.

I like your God. He lets you use the word "love" as a threat. funny I don't see THAT God in the bible. Only YOU do, and those like you.

 

[His_saving_Grac]

BTW Rapt

BTW Rapt

I hope you realize your God has all the same tones and beliefs that the JiHad God of the terrorist have. Mine has the tones that the U.S.A held in the National Church in Washington yesterday. The USA supports my God. Your God is about to be blown back to his home.

 

[MARANATHA_NOW]

I believe there are going to be some who at the return of CHRIST, are going to be shocked at seeing the lake that will be 200 miles long and about 4 feet deep. This will be a lake of blood and body parts. I can almost hear them now saying I thought GOD was a loving GOD. How could HE do such a thing. I will tell you how, it's called justice. When GOD THE LORD JESUS returns he will personally kill all that are alive on the earth that have rejected him. This will be the most horrific sight that you can imagine. There we will be no unsaved that will enter the 1000 year kingdom. PEACE, but not yet.

 

[His_saving_Grac]

Who said anything about rejecting Jesus? I reject RAPT'S interpretation of Jesus.

Where did you get your details on this lake?

So justice means death in your view too, huh? Not only death, but tortuoues death. You REALLY think God wants your false love through FEAR of him? You really can't accept that the reason Jesus was born was so we Loved God because we LOVED him and NOT because we feared him?

Well, I will continue to love God because I love him and not because I fear him. He has my eternal love. I know his power. I don't fear that power because he has already taken me back from death and pain 6 times personally. So when he wants to, he can do it. I will lovingly let him without fear in my heart. He has granted me extra years to spend and develope with my children. I KNOW about his Grace. I KNOW about his love. This tortuous God Rapt discusses (as well as others) is NOT the God who personally intervened in my life.

The God I worship was the one who sent the prophets. the one who sent John the Baptist. The one who sent Jesus. And the one who taught LOVE and not hate, The one who the world prayed to during ceremonies worldwide two days ago. The one that had his leaders asking for compassion and not hasty attacks on the innocents. NOT the one Rapt says will blow up everyone no matter what.

I reject the prophecies of Revelations as the Church did for 1500 years. I reject the churches use of that book to strike fear into the hearts of the uneducated for 300 years, and how each and every calamity that happenes they point it out in the book and tell us the exact year it is going to happen, and then have to take it back when it doesn't.

It was supposed to happen in 2000. then in 2001. Now they say in 2004 because they screwed up the Year of jesus birth. And in 2005 they will find another reason for it to happen.

I reject the fiery hell that did NOT exist with Moses' God, but was a later invention. I reject that the absolutely last god sent prophet to speak his devine word was Paul. I reject that NO ONE ELSE IN THE ENTIRE WORLD has EVER been inspired by god to say anything in almost 2000 years.

I accept Jesus Christ and his teachings. I accept that there are more teachings of his that didn't agree with Paul and were rejected by the Roman church that was Created by Paul (not Peter)

I have my peace. Rapt, through his anger, has no peace. Which do YOU think is more in touch with god almighty? The one who is stressing and angry, or the one who is content for every single breath he is still able to take since they are extra gifts from God and something he had lost twice in the past?

I love my God. He is NOT the same God of Rapt. He is the creator of the world, called Lord and the shortened version of his previously secret name is YHWH (it's actually a 26 letter name).

My God has already shown his love for me. Mine has never rejected me nor left me. Mine has cause many miracles in my life. Rapts is bombing children.

 

[MARANATHA_NOW]

I get the info on the lake, in REVELATION chapter 14, as well as chapter 19, which I believe are parallel stories. Also the verses in MATT. and MARK and LUKE, that refer to when the birds gather themselves together. But if you reject the only book in the bible (REVELATIONS), that GOD says you will recieve a blessing for reading and believing. Then I guess you will just lose out. BTW do you hate Rapt, if you do not, it sure sounds like you are close to. Rapt and I disagree on many things, but I still believe he is my brother in CHRIST. PEACE, but not yet.

 

[Zakath]

Still waiting...

Still waiting...

Hello Rapt,

I remember your words and threat...

"...And now, behold, the hand of the Lord is upon thee, and thou shalt be blind, not seeing the sun for a season..." Beware lest ye be found to fight against God as well, o ye devils that despise His Word.

I'm still here and my health and vision are both just as good as yesterday. I'm waiting for some action by you or your apparently bogus deity...

Or maybe you've decided that your deity doesn't really have any power as your old myths describe.

It appears that you're just another follower of a powerless delusion, worshipping a god that you created and who exists only in your mind.

Such misguided belief is so pathetic...

 

[His_saving_Grac]

I get the info on the lake, in REVELATION chapter 14, as well as chapter 19, which I believe are parallel stories. Also the verses in MATT. and MARK and LUKE, that refer to when the birds gather themselves together. But if you reject the only book in the bible (REVELATIONS), that GOD says you will recieve a blessing for reading and believing. Then I guess you will just lose out. BTW do you hate Rapt, if you do not, it sure sounds like you are close to. Rapt and I disagree on many things, but I still believe he is my brother in CHRIST. PEACE, but not yet.

Yeah, I guess I lose out since GOD did NOT say you will recieve a blessing for reading and believing the book of revelations. And it took 1500 years+ for the church to believe.

GOD has NEVER spoken out about anything in the New Testement. People who CLAIM that God spoke to THEM made that claim. Funny how you will accept their claims, but if ANYONE were to make that same claim today, they would be branded as crazy, or a heretic.

The Matthew, Mark and Luke don't say anything about this "lake of blood and body parts"

Nope, I don't hate Rapt. I sure do hate his way of presenting christianity though. I disapprove of ANYONE who tries to make Jesus into a WarGod when he himself refused that while on earth. I disapprove on ANYONE who says "God" told them to kill righteously, when "righteousness" is not a black and white word, but an ambigouis one with a different interpretation by each individual, including the JiHad and fanatics that cause terrorism.

Read the "Shepard of Hermes" That is a very very famous OTHER books of revelations where God spoke to an individual and showed him the layers of Heaven and the end of life. It was never canonized because it is even more scary than Revelations.

Then go back and re-read the Gospels. The kingdom of God (Jesus) was to happen in THEIR lifetimes. Jesus himself many times said "I say to you, many here will not taste death before you see the Kingdom of God".

If Jesus is the son incarnate of God, when he was crucified we rejected the Kingdom of God. Revelations is nothing but the churches way to keep the faith alive and scare people into love (and it is impossible to love through fear. You can only FAKE your love)

Rapt may be a "brother" in Christ, but the minute he deems someone of my low background as the "anti-christ" then he goes past the knowledge of the Lord and into the realm of shear idiocy. He needs to read the bible and find out how powerful the enemy is. His speech will confuse and convert billions to his side thinking he is the Messiah come back. THAT is who the anti-christ is/will be. Not some lowly person still searching for all of Gods word. The Anti-christ will use Gods own word against us to cunfuse us into sinning, much as is being done when people advocate mass killing and say it is in Gods name. That is what the terrorist fanatics do. That is ALSO what Rapt is advocating. So if THEY are wrong, how is HE right?

 

[His_saving_Grac]

Re: Still waiting...

Re: Still waiting...

Hello Rapt,

I remember your words and threat...

I'm still here and my health and vision are both just as good as yesterday. I'm waiting for some action by you or your apparently bogus deity...

Or maybe you've decided that your deity doesn't really have any power as your old myths describe.

It appears that you're just another follower of a powerless delusion, worshipping a god that you created and who exists only in your mind.

Such misguided belief is so pathetic...

Hello Zakath, how are you today?

I must have missed Rapts attempt to "curse" you. He accused me of blasphamy, and is too uninformed to realize that his attempt to curse you is a blasphemy in itself.

A person on Earth cannot possibly call on God and order him to do something to another. God NEVER granted Rapt that power, and to act like he has it is one of the greatest blasphemies possible. It shows he PRESUMES to have been singled out with God's blessing.

You may be right about the powerlessness of Rapts deity, because his deity doesn't appear to follow the same rules that the Christians "God" does. Rapts deity follows Rapts rules. Making Rapt his own God.

While his "god" is a delussion on his part, rest assured it isn't the same God from the bible. I know you are atheist, but don't let the God that some fanatics follow make you think he is the same God I or many other christians follow.

I would love to have an educated discourse with you about this. I promise you I will NOT resort to insults, threats, sarcasm (unless in a joking manner where we BOTH laugh), or any other manner of belittling your faith or lack of belief in my faith.

I would be honored if you would accept this offer.

 

[Zakath]

Re: Re: Still waiting...

Re: Re: Still waiting...

Hello Zakath, how are you today?

Hearty and hale, thank you!

...I would love to have an educated discourse with you about this. I promise you I will NOT resort to insults, threats, sarcasm (unless in a joking manner where we BOTH laugh), or any other manner of belittling your faith or lack of belief in my faith.

I would be honored if you would accept this offer.

I'd be glad to oblige, but I will be travelling on business this week so my posting may be a little erratic. If you're willing to be patient regarding my response time, carry on. Otherwise we'll have to wait until next week...

It's up to you.

 

[D__o__n]

Actually, Zakath, you are correct in that the intent of the meaning is directed towards those in the church.

However, there is evidence that cannot be overlooked: Verse 9 - I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators.

When applied to the passage, this shows that some hypocrisy was going on with the Corinthians. Why are they judging those outside the church when they haven't judged the ones inside the church that are doing the same thing?

Paul isn't telling them not to judge; he's echoing "remove the beam from your own eye before talking about the mote in your brother's."

 

[D__o__n]

Saving Grace two things to consider:

1) Hypocrite - actor; in the context of Matthew 7, someone who was acting righteous, when in reality they were just as bad as the people they were condemning.

2) Who do you say that Jesus is?