ARCHIVE: Thread Theft (docrob and Knight)

[docrob57]

Ok... I answer only because you asked.

Doc, I learned that there is no reason for me to invest any time discussing stuff with you because when push comes to shove you tell me you really don't care. Personally I think that is a bit rude and not to mention odd since it was you who started this thread in the first place.

If I challenged you in a thread (like this) and asked you to invest your time responding to me, I would never blow you off like you have me.

No, I said I don't care about whether the future is open or closed, which was not the reason I started the thread. I guess the problem is that you see the question of God's foreknowledge as tied up in the open/closed question, whereas I do not.

I think the foreknowledge question is important, because if God does not at least have the ability to predict the future perfectly, then this is a much more severe limitation that I think you realize.

Anyway, sorry if I came off as rude. It wasn't intentional.

 

[Nathon Detroit]

I think the foreknowledge question is important, because if God does not at least have the ability to predict the future perfectly, then this is a much more severe limitation that I think you realize.

If God has the ability to predict the future perfectly why doesn't He do just that in every instance?

 

[docrob57]

If God has the ability to predict the future perfectly why doesn't He do just that in every instance?

Well, at least we have worked our way around to the beginning again. Okay, do you really believe that God thought He would destroy Nineveh but was mistaken?

 

[Nathon Detroit]

Well, at least we have worked our way around to the beginning again. Okay, do you really believe that God thought He would destroy Nineveh but was mistaken?

No.

I believe that God INTENDED to overthrow Nineveh in 40 days, but God repented (changed His mind) because the people of Nineveh repented.

Why do I believe such a silly thing? Well... because that is what the Bible says.

Please respond to me directly or this will be the last time I post in this thread....

If God has the ability to predict the future perfectly why doesn't He do that in every instance?

 

[docrob57]

No.

I believe that God INTENDED to overthrow Nineveh in 40 days, but God repented (changed His mind) because the people of Nineveh repented.

Why do I believe such a silly thing? Well... because that is what the Bible says.

Please respond to me directly or this will be the last time I post in this thread....

If God has the ability to predict the future perfectly why doesn't He do that in every instance?

I'm sorry, I simply can't accept your premise. You asked earlier . . . did I really think this was a "non-prophesy." This is what I think. It was a warning. It was not intended to be a prediction or descriptive statement of a future event. If it was anything other than a warning, if God meant literally what he said, and there was no implied statement, why did Jonah object to delivering the message? And for that matter, why did Nineveh repent?

I think these are legitimate questions. If you do not, feel free not to answer.

But I have to say .... I AM SO HAPPY!!!

I got a + rep from Bob Enyart

(No, not for a post on this thread)

 

[Nathon Detroit]

This is what I think. It was a warning. It was not intended to be a prediction or descriptive statement of a future event.

Isn't the entire point of any warning an attempt to change the course of predicted events?

Clearly you don't think God is into idle threats do you?

How could this help your argument?

If it was anything other than a warning, if God meant literally what he said, and there was no implied statement, why did Jonah object to delivering the message? And for that matter, why did Nineveh repent?

The implied statement is.... you better repent!

And they did!

That doesn't help your case because you cannot have both a conditional future (dependent on yet to be determined events) and also have a settled future.

In Isaiah God states....

Isaiah 5:2 He dug it up and cleared out its stones, And planted it with the choicest vine. He built a tower in its midst, And also made a winepress in it; So He expected it to bring forth good grapes, But it brought forth wild grapes. 3 “And now, O inhabitants of Jerusalem and men of Judah, Judge, please, between Me and My vineyard. 4 What more could have been done to My vineyard That I have not done in it? Why then, when I expected it to bring forth good grapes, Did it bring forth wild grapes?

If God has exhaustive foreknowledge why was God expecting good grapes from Israel when in reality the produced wild grapes?

 

[docrob57]

Isn't the entire point of any warning an attempt to change the course of predicted events?

Clearly you don't think God is into idle threats do you?

How could this help your argument?

The implied statement is.... you better repent!

And they did!

That doesn't help your case because you cannot have both a conditional future (dependent on yet to be determined events) and also have a settled future.

In Isaiah God states....

Isaiah 5:2 He dug it up and cleared out its stones, And planted it with the choicest vine. He built a tower in its midst, And also made a winepress in it; So He expected it to bring forth good grapes, But it brought forth wild grapes. 3 “And now, O inhabitants of Jerusalem and men of Judah, Judge, please, between Me and My vineyard. 4 What more could have been done to My vineyard That I have not done in it? Why then, when I expected it to bring forth good grapes, Did it bring forth wild grapes?

If God has exhaustive foreknowledge why was God expecting good grapes from Israel when in reality the produced wild grapes?

Of course the implied message is you better repent, That is what I have been saying all along. This being the case, how can you call this a "prediction" and if it is, how can you say it didn't "come true."

You are right, there is no point in continuing the discussion. You offer evidence to defeat your argument and then claim victory, as I have said from the beginning. We agree on most things, so that is good.

 

[Nathon Detroit]

Of course the implied message is you better repent, That is what I have been saying all along. This being the case, how can you call this a "prediction" and if it is, how can you say it didn't "come true."

The point is it wasn't fulfilled!

When God said...
"Yet forty days, and Nineveh shall be overthrown!"

He meant it! It wasn't an idle threat as you would have us believe.

You are right, there is no point in continuing the discussion. You offer evidence to defeat your argument and then claim victory, as I have said from the beginning. We agree on most things, so that is good.

In Isaiah God states....

Isaiah 5:2 He dug it up and cleared out its stones, And planted it with the choicest vine. He built a tower in its midst, And also made a winepress in it; So He expected it to bring forth good grapes, But it brought forth wild grapes. 3 “And now, O inhabitants of Jerusalem and men of Judah, Judge, please, between Me and My vineyard. 4 What more could have been done to My vineyard That I have not done in it? Why then, when I expected it to bring forth good grapes, Did it bring forth wild grapes?

If God has exhaustive foreknowledge why was God expecting good grapes from Israel when in reality the produced wild grapes?

 

[docrob57]

You win!! Merry Christmas!!! Early New Years resolution, I won't engage in discussions on this topic again.

NEXT WEEK'S AVATAR THEME: FAMOUS RESIDENTS OF HELL!

 

[Nathon Detroit]

New Years resolution, I won't engage in discussions on this topic again.

Can I ask why?

 

[docrob57]

Can I ask why?

Because there is no point. You guys are not open (no pun intended) to the idea that you might be wrong, and I am not open to the idea that you might be right. The latter is not completely true, but I have been is several of these discussions, and, on this matter, I have never even seen an argument that I would consider remotely persuasive.

The future may indeed be open, but I really can't accept that God makes mistakes and/or changes His mind.

 

[Nathon Detroit]

Okay.