ARCHIVE: The Apostle Pauls affirms that a Christian can sin.
- Thread starter Nathon Detroit
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:freak:Sozo said:
elected4ever
New member
In considering Knights remarks, I had , by necessity go back over my theology. I had to reconsider every thing that I had said because of the scripture in 1Corinthians 8:12 But when ye sin so against the brethren, and wound their weak conscience, ye sin against Christ.. Needless to say the implication of this text is that Christians sin.
A christian as a whole, body soul and spirit, are all considered as a unit in when we think of ourselves. When I think of Knight I do not think of him as a body, soul and spirit and when I address him in conversation I address the total person. The person who is Knight. I do not separate the three. I address the three as a whole. That is what Paul does when when he gives instruction in righteousness which is what Paul is doing here.
Each of us who are born again has the Holy Spirit of God and through the Holy Spirit we have knowledge. of our liberty in Christ. We know that the gods of this world are nothing and food is is just a consumable and will amount to nothing when it is consumed and all things of this world are perishing and are as nothing to us. Then Paul makes a statement that we all tend to for get at times.
1 Corinthians 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
7 ¶Howbeit there is not in every man that knowledge: for some with conscience of the idol unto this hour eat it as a thing offered unto an idol; and their conscience being weak is defiled.
You can draw a parallel to most every thing we do. We do not bridle our liberty because of its legality but because of the weak conscience of those around us. A weak conscience is a conscience that has no knowledge of our liberty in Christ. Most every thing we do violates the conscience of someone and that someone is one for whom Christ has died.
Is it our exercise of liberty that is wrong or the wounding of the weak conscience of the one that does not know liberty in Christ. This sin is in our lives every day and in every way. It is unavoidable.
This presents us with a dilemma of sorts. If you are like me then the very thought of being responsible for the destruction of another person is abhorrent. There is an answer to the question, Did I really do that? Did I really sin against Christ? This is the dilemma that I faced when i blamed myself for ever thing wrong in our church. This is why I wonted to die. I wonted God to take my life because I could not bear being a further embarrassment to God. I was presented with an imposable situation for which I had no answer. Being a christian was the most miserable existence in the world.
I know that I am not guilty of any such thing as Paul presented here and hear is why
1. 1 John 1:5 ¶This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. 6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
Light = righteousness and life
Darkness = sin and death.
John is saying that God is righteousness and life and in God there is no sin and death
My friend, what were we just talking about? The impossibility of us not to sin in our daily conduct. I was doing my very best to walk in the light. I was following Jesus the very best that I could. The same as you. I never purposely went out to destroy people. I wanted people to be saved not destroyed. Yet every time I turned around it seemed that i missed the mark for some reason or the other. The more I failed the harder i tried. The harder I tried the more I failed.
Folks I was hearting bad and no one had an answer for me. They said believe in Jesus and don't sin. But if you do sin well just ask forgiveness and move own. I was spending so much time on me trying not to sin and confessing my sins that I had little time to concern my self with the problems of others. How could I help others when I could not help myself. Such is the merrygoround in our churches today.. If I talked to you it was ether your sin or my sin under discussion. There were times that i would just ignore my sin and hoped it would go away.
1 John 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
8 ¶If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
The fellowship of the brethren was predicated on me walking in the light. The cleansing power of the blood was predicated on me walking in the light. Everything hinged on my ability to walk in the light. There were times that I thought that I was not saved could not be saved and would never be saved. Why? because I keep slipping back into the darkness of sin and condemnation. I was one of the week ones for whom Christ died. How much of my life was destroyed by so called Christians. How many are where I once was. Why, because of the absence of knowledge, my people perish.
The people of God do not know who they are in Christ. I have done by best to give knowledge to those for whom christ died a knowledge that they did not have before.
The soul and the body are dead to God. They are without life and without hope. There is life in the Spirit because the Spirit is of God. The Spirit gives life and that life is in Jesus. if you have the spirit you have life. If you do not have the Spirit, you do not have life. Are you of the Spirit or of the flesh.. Is your identity in Christ or in the flesh. Just who are you today? If you are in Christ you have fellowship with the saints and the blood of Jesus Christ has cleansed you from all sin.
1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
When You ask Jesus to forgive you of your sin do you believe that He did? If you agreed with Jesus that you were a sinner (confession) and believe that he is able, Do you also believe that He was faithful and just to forgive "all" your sin and do you believe that He is also faithful and just to cleanse you from "all" unrighteousness. Do you have any doubt that you are righteous as He is righteous. if you do not believe that, you are not saved. Whosoever "believeth" on me 'hath" life and he that believes not does not have life. I have come that you may have life and have it more abundantly.
A christian as a whole, body soul and spirit, are all considered as a unit in when we think of ourselves. When I think of Knight I do not think of him as a body, soul and spirit and when I address him in conversation I address the total person. The person who is Knight. I do not separate the three. I address the three as a whole. That is what Paul does when when he gives instruction in righteousness which is what Paul is doing here.
Each of us who are born again has the Holy Spirit of God and through the Holy Spirit we have knowledge. of our liberty in Christ. We know that the gods of this world are nothing and food is is just a consumable and will amount to nothing when it is consumed and all things of this world are perishing and are as nothing to us. Then Paul makes a statement that we all tend to for get at times.
1 Corinthians 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
7 ¶Howbeit there is not in every man that knowledge: for some with conscience of the idol unto this hour eat it as a thing offered unto an idol; and their conscience being weak is defiled.
You can draw a parallel to most every thing we do. We do not bridle our liberty because of its legality but because of the weak conscience of those around us. A weak conscience is a conscience that has no knowledge of our liberty in Christ. Most every thing we do violates the conscience of someone and that someone is one for whom Christ has died.
Is it our exercise of liberty that is wrong or the wounding of the weak conscience of the one that does not know liberty in Christ. This sin is in our lives every day and in every way. It is unavoidable.
This presents us with a dilemma of sorts. If you are like me then the very thought of being responsible for the destruction of another person is abhorrent. There is an answer to the question, Did I really do that? Did I really sin against Christ? This is the dilemma that I faced when i blamed myself for ever thing wrong in our church. This is why I wonted to die. I wonted God to take my life because I could not bear being a further embarrassment to God. I was presented with an imposable situation for which I had no answer. Being a christian was the most miserable existence in the world.
I know that I am not guilty of any such thing as Paul presented here and hear is why
1. 1 John 1:5 ¶This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. 6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
Light = righteousness and life
Darkness = sin and death.
John is saying that God is righteousness and life and in God there is no sin and death
John 8:12 ¶Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.
My friend, what were we just talking about? The impossibility of us not to sin in our daily conduct. I was doing my very best to walk in the light. I was following Jesus the very best that I could. The same as you. I never purposely went out to destroy people. I wanted people to be saved not destroyed. Yet every time I turned around it seemed that i missed the mark for some reason or the other. The more I failed the harder i tried. The harder I tried the more I failed.
Folks I was hearting bad and no one had an answer for me. They said believe in Jesus and don't sin. But if you do sin well just ask forgiveness and move own. I was spending so much time on me trying not to sin and confessing my sins that I had little time to concern my self with the problems of others. How could I help others when I could not help myself. Such is the merrygoround in our churches today.. If I talked to you it was ether your sin or my sin under discussion. There were times that i would just ignore my sin and hoped it would go away.
1 John 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
8 ¶If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
The fellowship of the brethren was predicated on me walking in the light. The cleansing power of the blood was predicated on me walking in the light. Everything hinged on my ability to walk in the light. There were times that I thought that I was not saved could not be saved and would never be saved. Why? because I keep slipping back into the darkness of sin and condemnation. I was one of the week ones for whom Christ died. How much of my life was destroyed by so called Christians. How many are where I once was. Why, because of the absence of knowledge, my people perish.
The people of God do not know who they are in Christ. I have done by best to give knowledge to those for whom christ died a knowledge that they did not have before.
The soul and the body are dead to God. They are without life and without hope. There is life in the Spirit because the Spirit is of God. The Spirit gives life and that life is in Jesus. if you have the spirit you have life. If you do not have the Spirit, you do not have life. Are you of the Spirit or of the flesh.. Is your identity in Christ or in the flesh. Just who are you today? If you are in Christ you have fellowship with the saints and the blood of Jesus Christ has cleansed you from all sin.
1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
When You ask Jesus to forgive you of your sin do you believe that He did? If you agreed with Jesus that you were a sinner (confession) and believe that he is able, Do you also believe that He was faithful and just to forgive "all" your sin and do you believe that He is also faithful and just to cleanse you from "all" unrighteousness. Do you have any doubt that you are righteous as He is righteous. if you do not believe that, you are not saved. Whosoever "believeth" on me 'hath" life and he that believes not does not have life. I have come that you may have life and have it more abundantly.
I couldn't agree more! :up:elected4ever said:
Excellent post and welcome to the "light" side.
When I lean on God He helps me be "implacable".Sozo said:
2Timothy 4:2 Preach the word! Be ready in season and out of season. Convince, rebuke, exhort, with all longsuffering and teaching.
:idunno:Sozo said:
im·plac·a·ble:
–adjective
not to be appeased, mollified, or pacified; inexorable: an implacable enemy.
—Synonyms unappeasable, unbending, merciless.
Should I be "appeased" that my friend and brother in Christ (that's you) is in error?
His point in his second paragraph is almost identical to what I have been saying all along.Sozo said:
Wait for what? Isn't the context already there?Sozo said:
My guess is e4e thinks I think something other than what I think. My guess is e4e is so too busy thinking of reasons as to why I am not saved he probably doesn't even know what I really think on this issue.
:rotfl:
Hey Sozo... lets imagine I came to visit you.
And lets imagine further that you took me to your church. And we were standing there (in the church lobby) and I pointed over to a guy and asked you....
"Is that guy a Christian?"
Let's assume you knew "that guy" and you knew "that guy" was a Christian.
Would you answer me... "Yes, 'that guy' is a Christian"
Or would you equivocate and say.... "well, the spirit part of 'that guy' is a Christian but the flesh part isn't."
Which way would you answer?
And lets imagine further that you took me to your church. And we were standing there (in the church lobby) and I pointed over to a guy and asked you....
"Is that guy a Christian?"
Let's assume you knew "that guy" and you knew "that guy" was a Christian.
Would you answer me... "Yes, 'that guy' is a Christian"
Or would you equivocate and say.... "well, the spirit part of 'that guy' is a Christian but the flesh part isn't."
Which way would you answer?
:chuckle:Sozo said:
Come on now... indulge me. (plus, it's only hypothetical).
But what about the fleshy part of him???Sozo said:
Why wouldn't you explain to me that only the Spirit part of him is a Christian?
Since my question was... "Is that guy a Christian?"Sozo said:
Isn't it obvious I didn't "know that"???? If I knew (or agreed with your premise) I would have said something like... "Does that guy have a Spirit and a fleshy part?" :freak:
Lets lets try again....
If I asked you.... "Is that guy a Christian?"
What would you say?
Sozo
New member
Knight said:
:doh:
Okay, I get it now, it's like were at the zoo, and you've never seen a Baboon before, so you are asking me if that is a Baboon.
Yes, Knight, as far as I know, he is a Christian. However, what you are seeing is only his body, because a Christian is a spritual being, that dwells in a body.