ARCHIVE: Open Theism part 3

tetelestai

tetelestai

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
Nang said:
Dave fills a web page full of references to God's Holy Word, and then adds his personal commentary, which manages to contradict the Scriptures quoted by his issuance of a totally false theodicy; resulting in producing only blasphemy and insults against the Almighty Creator.
Click to expand...

:up:

And I'm not even a Calvinist!
 
G

godrulz

Well-known member
Hall of Fame
Lon, time is not a limitation on God like it is for us. It is an aspect of His experience as a personal being. Just because creation comes before incarnation before Second Coming in God's reality and ours does not limit Him. What is limiting is trying to listen to Beethoven's symphonies in one eternal now cacophony.
 
DFT_Dave

DFT_Dave

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
Nang said:
Dave fills a web page full of references to God's Holy Word, and then adds his personal commentary, which manages to contradict the Scriptures quoted by his issuance of a totally false theodicy; resulting in producing only blasphemy and insults against the Almighty Creator. For he claims:

"God and Evil
Many people are skeptical about God's existence because of the evil in the world. They wonder, "Why did a perfect and holy God create imperfect and sinful humans?"
The answer is that we are not imperfect creations nor were we created sinful. We are simply finite (limited) and free. God warns us of the terrible consequences of sin, but he doesn't want us to be mere robots, with no will of our own, so he will not force us to do what is right.
Others ask, "Why did God create a world that he knew from the start was going to become so evil that he would have to destroy most of mankind in a great flood and ultimately in a fiery hell?"
The answer to that question is in Genesis 6:5-6. It says, "And God saw that the wickedness of man was great ...and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. And the Lord was sorry that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him to his heart."
God regretted creating man because he did not know what man was going to do with the freedom he had given him. God did not know what man would do because the future of man is open and not fixed or predetermined by God.
The future of the world does not exist for God to see because he created the world finite, therefore he limited it to exist in present time only. God knew that man could sin but not that he would sin."

(Emphasis, mine.)

This is one of the sorriest and most disgusting things I have ever seen put in print about the Lord God.

. . . And I can see why Godrulz identifies with this fella, who apparently also denies the complete corruption of the human race due to Adam's original sin. . .

Quite troubling, indeed.

Nang
Click to expand...

I'm impressed! Your almost there, one last step. Now you have to prove any point I have made is wrong according to the rules of proper Biblical exegeses, which will in the end show that I am correct.



--Dave
 
Delmar

Delmar

Patron Saint of SMACK
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
godrulz said:
Lon, time is not a limitation on God like it is for us. It is an aspect of His experience as a personal being. Just because creation comes before incarnation before Second Coming in God's reality and ours does not limit Him. What is limiting is trying to listen to Beethoven's symphonies in one eternal now cacophony.
Click to expand...
godrulz :up:
Is God limited by time? = Is God limited by reality?

Lon
Please read my new motto and repeat after me. God is REAL!
 
DFT_Dave

DFT_Dave

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
tetelestai said:
No Dave, it would not mean God tells a lie. An analogy to light might help you see.

When sunlight falls on a blue dress, blue is the only color seen; when on a bright red shirt, only red. A yellow object shows only yellow, etc. How can one beam of light suddenly be a different color every time it strikes a different spot? The differences occur because a ray of white light contains all the colors of the spectrum (album cover of Pink Floyd's "Dark side of the moon"), and whenever it strikes an opaque object some colors are absorbed while others are reflected.

The blue dress is blue because it absorbs the reds and yellows; it reflects only the blue we see. The red shirt absorbs yellows, blue-greens, and blues, reflecting its specific shade of red. If a dress absorbed no color, it would reflect the entire contents of the white light and would obviously be white.

Even though each object shows its own color, the entire visible spectrum is still present in the white light shining upon it. The difference is not in the light but in the selective absorption of the object. Likewise, God’s essence might manifest certain characteristics in one situation but others in a different situation.

The Lord Jesus Christ displays His awesome omnipotence as the Creator and Sustainer of the universe. (John 1:3; Col 1:16; Heb 1:2, Heb 1:10)
Click to expand...

No, no, this light show won't work; you have accused God of lying. I wouldn't want to be in your shoes right now.

--Dave
 
tetelestai

tetelestai

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
Is it just me, or is Super Dave and Lighthouse in a “Most Arrogant Open Theist” contest?

Lighthouse said:
Seeing as how I'm a very talented artist and poet I'm fairly certain you're way off about how I think.
Click to expand...


DFT_Dave said:
I'm impressed! Your almost there, one last step. Now you have to prove any point I have made is wrong according to the rules of proper Biblical exegeses, which will in the end show that I am correct.
Click to expand...

????????

Must be an open theist thing.
 
G

godrulz

Well-known member
Hall of Fame
DFT_Dave said:
What exactly did you find so troubling?

--Dave
Click to expand...

Let us in on the fun. What are your 5 conditions?

Grace and the person and work of Christ is the grounds of salvation.

I consider the conditions of salvation to be repentant faith and continuance in the faith (or repentance and initial/ongoing faith).
 
DFT_Dave

DFT_Dave

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
Lon said:
Let me try yet again, so that at least it stands for the record: An eternal non-beginning is greatly troubling to your concepts, whether you acquiesce it or not. Every metaphysical (formal operational) thinker will agree with this truth. They may take a variance upon it, but they will not, cannot change it from being a truth.

The truth again: God cannot possibly be constrained to duration and sequence (time and its concepts) as we are. As GodRulz is so fond of saying, it is like 'square-circle.' It is trying to understand God from finite parameters against infinite/eternal considerations. It cannot be done.
Click to expand...

No! An eternal non-beginning is not troubling to me. There are two views of eternity: "unlimited time", time with no beginning and no end, with a past and a future; and "timelessness" which is no time at all, no past and no future.

Eternal timelessness is troubling. Time does not constrain God because time is not a thing in itself for God or us. Once we define time properly, you will see why. I would like you to define it before I do.

--Dave
 
Nang

Nang

TOL Subscriber
DFT_Dave said:
Now you have to prove any point I have made is wrong
Click to expand...


Dave, seriously . . .you have not made any points.

You have made ignorant assertions based upon blind assumptions that blatantly contradict the Holy Scriptures that you have disrespectfully and haphazardly keyboarded onto some web pages.

It is not my responsibility to prove you are wrong; rather it is your responsibility to back up your specious comments and wild theories with biblical foundation, authority, and sytematical evidence that you accurately represent the truths of God.

according to the rules of proper Biblical exegeses, which will in the end show that I am correct.
Click to expand...

Anyone who has gone to the trouble to put up a detailed web site meant to promote a new theology like yours, should have already conducted their own "proper Biblical exegeses."

Such is sadly lacking amidst your online presentation; which reveals a serious spiritual underestimation of the attributes of God Almighty.

Nang
 
tetelestai

tetelestai

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
DFT_Dave said:
Apparently, proving your point isn't your thing.
Click to expand...

Hi Super Dave:

I can expain something to you, but I cant make you understand it. Moreover, I am not here to prove anything, I am here to learn.

Since you appear to be a self proclaimed expert on "eternity", I will ask the same question that you avoided from my previous post:

After salvation, does a believer have eternal life, or everlasting life?
 
DFT_Dave

DFT_Dave

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
Nang said:
Dave, seriously . . .you have not made any points.

You have made ignorant assertions based upon blind assumptions that blatantly contradict the Holy Scriptures that you have disrespectfully and haphazardly keyboarded onto some web pages.

It is not my responsibility to prove you are wrong; rather it is your responsibility to back up your specious comments and wild theories with biblical foundation, authority, and sytematical evidence that you accurately represent the truths of God.

Anyone who has gone to the trouble to put up a detailed web site meant to promote a new theology like yours, should have already conducted their own "proper Biblical exegeses."

Such is sadly lacking amidst your online presentation; which reveals a serious spiritual underestimation of the attributes of God Almighty.

Nang
Click to expand...

Where would you like me to begin?

--Dave
 
tetelestai

tetelestai

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
bybee said:
In what way is his theodicy false? I am an open-theist, generally. bybee
Click to expand...

No offense bybee, but since you believe God is a woman, it is a little hard to take you serious, but I will answer your question anyway.

First off, I believe salvation is by faith and faith alone. Dave, according to his website, lists faith and four additional conditions for salvation.

Dave also believes in all the other open theism doctrines such as “God regretted creating man because he did not know what man was going to do with the freedom he had given him”, “God did not know what man would do”, and “God knew that man could sin but not that he would sin.", etc, etc.

BTW, you are the first person I ever met who is an open theist and believes God is a woman :dizzy:

May I ask if you are a female?
 
Nang

Nang

TOL Subscriber
bybee said:
In what way is his theodicy false? I am an open-theist, generally. bybee
Click to expand...


If you are an open-theist, "generally," how do you evaluate Dave's
theodicy to be accurate and true according to the Word of God?

Curious,
Nang
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top