What in the world is "future foreknown reprobation"?
I don't think I've ever even heard that phrase before in my life. It's sort of difficult to refuse to engage an argument you've never heard of before, Rob.
I know the words future and foreknown are redundant. I used it to illuminate the difference between foreknowledge through atemporal means and foreknowledge through these means:
Muz from
here.
Now,
Open Theism does entail the idea that the exact course of the future is unknowable. Thus, none of these other views are akin to Open Theism's view of foreknowledge.
First,
Open Theist generally say that God has knowledge of all possible courses of the future. This is akin to the Molinist's view of God's natural knowledge. So, this is one part of OVF (Open View Foreknowledge.) Notice that this view doesn't fall into the same problems as the first three, as there are possibilities that remain after creation that will not occur, because we don't choose them.
Second, Open Theists generally say that God knows what He may do (or not do) at any given point in these possible futures, and knows how His actions will affect future possibilities. Further, God knows all of the possible ways that He could fulfill His prophecies and covenants which He makes. Notice that there may be more than one way that any given prophecy may be fulfilled. Thus, there is no requirement that a specific course of the future be followed in order to achieve this. God can't void His own free will, because He freely chooses to engage His prophecies and covenants.
Thus, OVF says that God foreknows all the possible ways in which prophecies and covenants will be fulfilled, and knows what is necessary to ensure that one of them occurs.
Finally, although this isn't foreknowledge, per se, God has exhaustive, definite knowledge of the past and present (since they already exist), and this includes the hearts, thoughts, and intentions of men, including the decisions we make now that push us into a certain future action.
This isn't foreknowledge of action but knowledge of a free will decision made about a future action.
Muz states, "This isn't foreknowledge of action, but knowledge of a free will decision made about a future action."
Now this is in opposition to your position in post 5033: "There are several things God knows for certain in advance, the free actions of men are not among them."
And I am not the only Open Theist that has consistently said that future free will actions are unknowable. I don't believe that my position on this issue is significantly different than Knight's, Turbo's, Polly's, Bob Enyart's, Bob Hill's and at least half a dozen other's who regularly post on this forum (if not in this actual thread). Hyperbole is one thing but come on already. You act as if I'm some sort of Lone Ranger on this one and it just isn't the case.
I'm sure that you aren't a 'lone ranger' on this issue.
However, I seem to remember Bob Enyart saying that God is capable, but simply chooses not to know the future.
The argument I presented before is below:
From post 5048:
John 17:12 'While I was with them, I protected them and kept them safe by that name you gave me. None has been lost except the one doomed to destruction' so that Scripture would be fulfilled.
Let's ask again then:
Did Judas become lost through....
1) predetermination
2) foreknown free choices
Remember #2 requires the existence of EDF and free will choices.
Simply claiming non-exhaustive foreknowledge or non-definite foreknowledge renders one or two outcomes:
1) The definition of foreknowledge is not 'to know beforehand'
2) Jesus words were speculative and not necessarily true
Lee also presented this idea in several posts:
And we still need to know how it is God knows only a remnant will be saved, and then all Israel will be saved (though this may refer to most Israelites, and not every last one)--group dynamics does not solve the knot, for insurances companies estimate, but do not prophesy.
