sentientsynth said:Lee,
Do you, like me, find it amazing that some within TOL teach that unsaved men have *more* freedom of will than saved men?
I find this amazing.
SS
sentientsynth said:Philetus,
I'll be happy to be more specific...in time. For now, try to think it through for yourself. What could I be talking about?
Is there something, anything that unsaved men have more options in than saved men?
SS
To go to Hell?sentientsynth said:Unbelievers can decide _________ or _________.
Believer cannot decide __________.
:first:Clete said:To go to Hell?
I had a feeling that was the answer you were going for but I do not believe this is true.sentientsynth said::first:
First prize to Clete!
You see, unbelievers can choose to go to heaven or to hell. But believers cannot choose to go to hell.
Thanks for playing.
sentientsynth said::first:
First prize to Clete!
You see, unbelievers can choose to go to heaven or to hell. But believers cannot choose to go to hell.
Thanks for playing.
Do you, like me, find it amazing that some within TOL teach that unsaved men have *more* freedom of will than saved men?
I find this amazing.
SS
And don't forget....sentientsynth said::first:
First prize to Clete!
You see, unbelievers can choose to go to heaven or to hell. But believers cannot choose to go to hell.
Thanks for playing.
sentientsynth said::first:
First prize to Clete!
You see, unbelievers can choose to go to heaven or to hell. But believers cannot choose to go to hell.
Thanks for playing.
Clete said:I had a feeling that was the answer you were going for but I do not believe this is true.
Beleivers are sealed UNTIL the day of redemption but when that day comes, if there is someone who has grown to hate God and doesn't want to stay with Him forever, I don't believe that God is going to force them to stick around against their will.
Resting in Him,
Clete
Knight said:And don't forget....
Unbelievers CANNOT choose to go to heaven in a way other than what God has determined in advance. I.e., A man cannot choose to go to heaven through atheism or by being a Wiccan.
Settled viewers often confuse freewill with UNLIMITED WILL, which no Open Viewer teaches.
And the strawman followed Dorothy all the way to Oz.
godrulz: Contingency is no excuse for man misusing his freedom. It was not God's intention or desire for man to rebel or reject the plan of redemption individually.
godrulz said:I believe it is possible for a believer to revert to apostasy and fall away to their former state of unbelief. Faith must continue/persist vs one-time choice.
Unbelievers generally do not 'chose' to go to hell. This is a consequence of their persistence in unbelief and rebellion. We can chose to receive or reject Christ. The Gospel is preached persuasively to all men and the Spirit desires to win all to Christ.
An unbeliever and a believer can chose between chocolate or vanilla, between sexual purity or immorality, etc.
Genuine freedom is self-evident. This is why we are responsible/culpable for our choices and God is not arbitrary or limited in His impartial love (He does not save some and damn others that He could save if He wanted to). Contingency is no excuse for man misusing his freedom. It was not God's intention or desire for man to rebel or reject the plan of redemption individually.
They can still choose to be a Christian of their own free will, right?Knight said:And don't forget....
Unbelievers CANNOT choose to go to heaven in a way other than what God has determined in advance. I.e., A man cannot choose to go to heaven through atheism or by being a Wiccan.
Philetus said:
godrulz,
I agree: even believers can choose to walk away from their faith ... but, it can't be as easy as some make it sound. Salvation is based on the performance of Christ not the performance of believers. Growing up in a kind of ‘performance oriented’ church, I lived in fear that my salvation was questionable every time I ‘sinned’. I would have settled for weekend security back then. Not now. I am secure in the knowledge that ‘in Christ’ I’m sealed. Look forward to hearing Clete’s answer.
sentientsynth said:They can still choose to be a Christian of their own free will, right?