ARCHIVE: NIV Bible Quiz

Lighthouse

The Dark Knight
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I have an NLT, as well. My pastor preaches from one. So I could use some info on that translation. Anyway, I ended up with one because I didn't check to see what version it was when I bought it. But if I had, then I probably wouldn't have bought that version, and I wouldn't know that that's what my pastor uses. Amazing how God works, isn't it?
 

eukolos

New member
Okay, what ya'll are saying about the NIV is pretty accurate. I checked out several of the verses noted by drbrumley. A few of the verses which he had said were missing were, in fact, in there; also, I never saw a verse which was totally missing - if it was not in the main body of the text, there was always a footnote which had the verse. But, for the most part, drbrumley was accurate (though I did not check all of his claims).

However, the vast majority of the verses were parenthetical in nature - they don't mean all that much. In fact, there was one which was literally parenthetical. A lot of those verses were not that big of a deal.

Also, by comparing the NIV with the NWT and the Jehovah's Witnesses, you imply that the NIV supports the Arian heresy, which it does no more than the KJV, NKJV, RSV, or any other English translation. (By the way, as a lover of the written word, you did a very good job of this. It was very subtly done. It made a point without seeming to. Kudos on your rhetoric)

Further, the NIV was meant for a Junior High audience. It is used by more than Junior Highers, but it was not originally meant for such a wide (and old) audience. Therefore, a perfect as a translation is not necessary, because it was not intended for scholars. It was only intended to give a decent translation to Junior Highers.

Basically, what I'm saying is that, yeah, you guys have good points, but what you're saying is a bit irrelevant. Or, if not irrelevant, then at least a very minor point - not the fundamental issue you into which you are making it.
 

Turbo

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Originally posted by eukolos

Basically, what I'm saying is that, yeah, you guys have good points, but what you're saying is a bit irrelevant. Or, if not irrelevant, then at least a very minor point - not the fundamental issue you into which you are making it.
When someone accuses God of condoning rape, doesn't that bother you?

If someone said that your earthly father says that rape victims should have to marry their attackers, wouldn't you get mad?
 

Turbo

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Originally posted by drbrumley

Get a real Bible. The King James conformable to the edition of 1611--NOT the New King James or the KJ21, etc. they are not King James Bibles.
:sigh: The author really overplays his hand here. He has done well at establishing the flaws of the NIV, although it would have been better if he pointed out that NIV and many other modern translations rely on two inferior manuscripts that have many inconsistencies, not only with the vast majority of other manuscripts, but with each other. He makes it sound like certain verses were omitted based on the translators' whim. But they were actually the whim of the cultists who transcribes the Greek manuscripts (the Minority Texts).

But the author has done absolutely nothing to establish that KJV is a perfect translation, or that NKJV or KJ21 are unacceptably flawed. None of what he has pointed out about the NIV applies to either KJ21 or NKJV. It's a non sequitur to throw them out based on the NIV's flaws, and it somewhat weakens the author's credibility.
 

the Sibbie

New member
I'm so glad you brought Acts 8:37 up, drbrumley. I also agree that it is a very important verse regarding salvation!

(NKJV)
Acts 8
36Now as they went down the road, they came to some water. And the eunuch said, "See, here is water. What hinders me from being baptized?"
37Then Philip said, "If you believe with all your heart, you may."
And he answered and said, "I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God."[1]
38So he commanded the chariot to stand still. And both Philip and the eunuch went down into the water, and he baptized him.

Footnotes

1. 8:37 NU-Text and M-Text omit this verse. It is found in Western texts, including the Latin tradition.
 

Lighthouse

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I still don't think the KJV is a perfect translation. It says "kill," in the commandments, when it should say "murder."
 

Frank Ernest

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Don't Hit Me, NIVers!

Don't Hit Me, NIVers!

Personal comments and preferences as I do not wish to engage in a debate.

No translation is perfect. I believe the KJV is as good as it gets. (Read the Preface for an idea of the problems the translators had.) For me, at least, it's easier to refer to the manuscripts from the KJV. I do have problems with the NIV updated language.

Incidentally, we use the English words "kill" and "murder" sometimes interchangably with the same inaccuracy. The KJV (Exodus 20) translates "kill" from the Hebrew (transliterated) "ra-tsach" which means kill, especially to murder. (Root = dash to pieces.)
 

eukolos

New member
Turbo:
When someone accuses God of condoning rape, doesn't that bother you?

If someone said that your earthly father says that rape victims should have to marry their attackers, wouldn't you get mad?
I would look at them and say, "No, my God would never say that - there must be a misunderstanding." Then I would go to my pastor and ask him about it, and if he's worth his salt - which we will assume he is - he will tell me that the translation I have been reading was mistaken, point me in the right direction, and I'll move on with my life. And I guarantee that it will have no effect whatsoever on my faith, or on anything at all with the possible exception that I might remember that the NIV isn't perfect.

Furthermore, 95% of Christians, if they ever read this passage at all (which is very doubtful) will say to themselves, "Well, that was a pretty stupid rule. I'm glad Jesus paid for our sin for us so we don't have to follow those rules anymore." And then they will MOVE ON. Perhaps we could all learn this lesson of, wait, what's it called? ...oh yeah, common sense.
 

Turbo

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Originally posted by lighthouse

I still don't think the KJV is a perfect translation. It says "kill," in the commandments, when it should say "murder."
Exactly.
 

the Sibbie

New member
Originally posted by eukolos

Furthermore, 95% of Christians, if they ever read this passage at all (which is very doubtful) will say to themselves, "Well, that was a pretty stupid rule. I'm glad Jesus paid for our sin for us so we don't have to follow those rules anymore." And then they will MOVE ON. Perhaps we could all learn this lesson of, wait, what's it called? ...oh yeah, common sense.
You might think it was just a stupid rule, since you probably believe that Jesus banished the death penalty. And you might think that people would have enough common sensse to see that it is wrong to force a rape victim to marry her attacker. But some people don't have that common sense. NIVis irresponsible to mistranslate that passage. My grandma personally knows a family that made their daughter marry her rapist because of that verse. How tragic is that? And even after I pointed out how illogical and out of line it was with other translations, my grandma still didn't believe me that it was just a mistranslation.

Oh, and btw, that is a lame, ignorant argument to assume that most Christians will never read that passage. All Christians should be encouraged to read the Bible for the full picture of God's ministry.
 

drbrumley

Well-known member
Originally posted by the Sibbie
My grandma personally knows a family that made their daughter marry her rapist because of that verse.

Now that is tragic. It is stupid stuff like this that has the world looking at Christians with utter contempt.

Originally posted by Lighthouse

I still don't think the KJV is a perfect translation. It says "kill," in the commandments, when it should say "murder."

I agree. In no way am I endorsing the findings of the author of the piece in question. But after looking at the piece, I looked at the different translations, and now I only use the two, KJV and NKJV. That's it. I will never use another translation. The NIV makes me sick to my stomach as well as the rest of them.

Turbo,

Thanks for your insight into this as well.
 

Jabez

Friend of Jesus
Deut 22:25 But if the man find the damsel that is betrothed in the field, and the man force her, and lie with her; then the man only that lay with her shall die:

Is that rape?Sorry Turbo the Pastor hasnt responded to me yet,but ive been looking into this.Ive been looking at the Hebrew text and translating it myself.I will keep you posted
 

Lighthouse

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Jabez-
Yes, that is rape.

Now, I will ask again, may I please have information on the NLT. And the NASB, as well. My best friend likes that translation, and he is the one who first alerted me to the skipping of verses in the NIV. I would also like information about a new translation, called, 'The Holman Christian Standard Bible.' I also think it would be a great help to others who post here if there were information on more versions, as well.
 

Turbo

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Originally posted by lighthouse

Jabez-
Yes, that is rape.

Now, I will ask again, may I please have information on the NLT.
Everything that has been written about the NIV on this thread applies to the NLT as well, including the "rape" mistranslation in Deut 22. I think the NLT is even worse than the NIV as far as the liberties taken in "baking in" interpretation to the translating the text.

And the NASB, as well. I would also like information about a new translation, called, 'The Holman Christian Standard Bible.'
Try taking the quiz in post #1 with the NASB and Holman using this Bible search engine.

This is the first time I've heard of Holman, but I can tell you already that it's no good. Like the NIV and NLT, it says that God wants rape victims to marry their attackers. :nono:


I also think it would be a great help to others who post here if there were information on more versions, as well. [/QUOTE]
 

Lighthouse

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The passage you are trying to view is not available. One possible cause is that this translation only has New Testament books, and your request included books from the Old Testament. Another possibility is that the chapter you are trying to view does not have the verse you are requesting.

That's the response I got from searching all but the KJVs and Young's Literal Translation, for Matthew 17:21. I will check it, now. It has the verse. Okay, now to check for the "rape"verse. I like Young's.

Which of these non edited versions do you think uses the most modern language?
 

Granite

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Originally posted by Turbo

See post #1.


Also...

  • If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, he shall pay the girl's father fifty shekels of silver. He must marry the girl, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives. Deuteronomy 22:28-29 NIV

    If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, 29he must pay fifty pieces of silver[1] to her father. Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her. Deuteronomy 22:28-29 NLT

These are (obvious) mistranslations that makes God look horribly unjust and undermine everything the Bible says about morality, especially sexual morality, not to mention justice.

KJV says the same thing, man. A slight update in the wording does not change a lick about the passage's meaning or intent.

This is the Mosaic law, like it or not.
 

Granite

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Originally posted by Turbo

When someone accuses God of condoning rape, doesn't that bother you?

If someone said that your earthly father says that rape victims should have to marry their attackers, wouldn't you get mad?

Mental gymnastics like this are the result of Christians confronting what's really in their Bible.

The Bible also says to burn women alive--daughters of priests who fornicate. It also says a woman who defends her husband by injuring her husband's attacker in the genitals should have her hand chopped off. Fun stuff.
 

greatdivide46

New member
Originally posted by Turbo

See post #1.


Also...

  • If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, he shall pay the girl's father fifty shekels of silver. He must marry the girl, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives. Deuteronomy 22:28-29 NIV

    If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, 29he must pay fifty pieces of silver[1] to her father. Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her. Deuteronomy 22:28-29 NLT

These are (obvious) mistranslations that makes God look horribly unjust and undermine everything the Bible says about morality, especially sexual morality, not to mention justice.

So which translation is not corrupt? I read the KJV and the NASB and they say essentially the same thing.
I mean if the NIV and the NLT are corrupt then what's the non-corrupt version of these verses?
 

Granite

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Option 1: Despite what the text very obviously says, we're somehow reading it wrong

Option 2: The text means just what it says...which has some interesting implications for the Christian community

Option 3: Everyone is miraculously missing something--the Christian catch all that we simply "don't understand" can explain away this heinous stuff

Option 4: God didn't REALLY mean that...but somehow it wound up in the Bible

Option 5: God only meant this at the time, which really, when you think about it, still makes this commandment pretty horrible
 
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