ARCHIVE: My niece is gay and I love her for it. So does God.

wickwoman

New member
My niece was gay the day she was born. I don’t know what caused it - maybe she’s got too much or too little of this hormone or that one. All I know is that every picture I look at of her from the day she started to look like one sex or the other, she always looked a little less than female. I can’t put my finger on it now, I just know she was different. That doesn’t make her a sinner.

When she was 4 years old she used to dress up in her dad’s work clothes and work boots. For Halloween she was always an army man or a Star Trek captain. All of her friends were little boys. She choose them because she had the most in common with boys. When boys decided they didn’t like girls, she had no friends. She was devastated. Her best friend Patrick told her one day girls were “icky.” It changed her attitude about life forever.

Sometimes I wonder if it was something I did or said or something her mom or dad did or didn’t do. When it comes right down to it, it doesn’t matter. Whether it was environment or genetics, nevertheless, she had no control over what happened to her and in her. It just was. Either way, no loving God would send her to Hell for it. Of this I am sure.

So tell me that God thinks she’s an “abomination.” But this time, use your head. Don’t quote from your famous book. Give me a logical reason from your very own head as to why God is going to send her to Hell for being gay. I challenge you to give me one good LOGICAL reason. She is not harming anyone, she is not even harming herself. What harmed her the most was when she tried to fit in and be straight.

She’s much happier now that she is openly gay. She and her girlfriend are not sexually involved right now. They want to keep their relationship plutonic for now. When I see them holding hands and enjoying being together so much, I think “how could this be wrong?”

When you objectify your beliefs it is much easier to hold them sacred. When something comes and knocks on the door of your house, then it’s different. God is that way too. Do you think he/she looks at you and says “you know, if you just weren’t so critical of everything, I would let you come to Heaven.” Or “if you didn’t get so angry in traffic, I would love you.” Or “if you didn’t spend so much time gossiping with your friends you would be alright in my book.”

No, God isn’t like that. People who believe this person or that person is going to Hell don’t really know those people they condemn. The make them objects and categorize them in the “bad” category. They don’t feel personally attached to the “bad” ones because if they did, they wouldn’t be able to keep them on the “bad” list. That’s why God doesn’t have a “bad” list. He/she does know each of us personally and he/she could never send anyone to Hell.

Now I’m talking to all of you who believe there is a Hell and that there are people who will go there someday: “As long as you keep your ears shut, your house of cards will not fall. As long as you refuse to let a logical thought enter your head, you will continue to swallow whatever the preacher tells you is right. You don’t have to think, you’ve got the Bible, the preacher, the Sunday school teacher. Is that what you really believe? But if one little doubt enters your head, your whole system of beliefs will begin to fall. It’s time you started thinking for yourself. Give it a try.”
 

Eireann

New member
Yes, I know my brother and the company he's keepin'
Yes, I know my brother well, he sings a different tune
Yes, I know my brother well, I've heard it said he's queer as hell
Pray that he's in love, as well ... higher than the moon!

Thanks for the information
Thanks, but no thanks, for the information
Thanks, but no thanks, for the information
Cuz information's got your number, too


-- "Information", by the Rainmakers

People who like to point the finger at gays and find every fault they can in them need to heed the words above.
 

wickwoman

New member
Because she is gay?

Because she is gay?

Dear Knight:

It is never sad to love someone.

I love her because she is gay, because she has brown eyes, because she has light brown hair and a very cute nose. I love her because she is a perfectionist, because she laughs at my jokes, because when she was a toddler she used to sing to herself while she was using the potty. I love her because she procrastinates, because she drives too fast, and because she once she told me to "hush" when I was singing her a lullabye. (I'm not a very good singer.)

I love her because she's mine. I've always loved her. Since the day she was born.

Dear Eireann:

I was trying to remember your name the other day. I was citing you as one of the "enlightened" ones. Thanks for the post.
 

Poly

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Re: Because she is gay?

Re: Because she is gay?

Originally posted by wickwoman
Dear Knight:

It is never sad to love someone.

I love her because she is gay, because she has brown eyes, because she has light brown hair and a very cute nose. I love her because she is a perfectionist, because she laughs at my jokes, because when she was a toddler she used to sing to herself while she was using the potty. I love her because she procrastinates, because she drives too fast, and because she once she told me to "hush" when I was singing her a lullabye. (I'm not a very good singer.)

I love her because she's mine. I've always loved her. Since the day she was born.
Why shouldn't the evil love the evil?
 

calvinistkid

New member
A question for you- you fault us for "not having to think. we have the Bible, the Preacher, etc." You tell us to give you a logical reason out of our own heads. Then you go on to say (with quite a bit of conviction) that:
"No, God isn’t like that. People who believe this person or that person is going to Hell don’t really know those people they condemn. The make them objects and categorize them in the “bad” category. They don’t feel personally attached to the “bad” ones because if they did, they wouldn’t be able to keep them on the “bad” list. That’s why God doesn’t have a “bad” list. He/she does know each of us personally and he/she could never send anyone to Hell. "
These are absolute statements about God. What I would like to know is where you found this "divine knowledge" about God? What is your authority in saying these things?
On an ending note, I would like to offer you what the apostle Paul said in the 9th book of Romans- "But who are you, O man, to talk back to God?"
With love in Christ'
Leon
 

calvinistkid

New member
As far as loving her is concerned, do not stop. We are to show love to sinners of all kinds. This does not mean that we condone their actions. Perhaps at this point in her life your daughter is living apart from God. Perhaps she has come to know the Lord, but is still weak in the faith. If this is the case, then her love for God will lead her to desire to do His will and obey His commands. Don't get me wrong- she will not become perfect overnight. She will continue to sin until the day she dies. But those sins will have been atoned for, and God will give her the desire to stop.
 

Freak

New member
Eireann-an enlightened one? Now, that's a first.

Wickwoman--

God loves your niece so much that He desires her to repent of her homosexuality and to live a holy life in Christ.

Jesus loves gays, theives, murderers, etc but He demands for them to repent before entering eternal hell. Wickwoman--homosexuality is a evil learned behavior. God does not create homosexuals. Yuo are very misinformed if you believe she was born gay.

Love you niece unconditonally and point her to Jesus.
 

Eireann

New member
Re: Because she is gay?

Re: Because she is gay?

Originally posted by wickwoman
Dear Eireann:

I was trying to remember your name the other day. I was citing you as one of the "enlightened" ones. Thanks for the post.
Thanks. And ... you're welcome.
 

Eireann

New member
Originally posted by Freak
Eireann-an enlightened one? Now, that's a first.
Wisdom comes in all flavors. No one is "enlightened," in the sense that they have a transcendent wisdom in all things. In certain areas, I'm sure I'm more wise or enlightened than you. In other areas, I'm sure you're more wise or enlightened than I. I think it all depends on the issue and where our particular knowledge or experience lies.
 

Sozo

New member
Even if she was born gay (which she wasn't), Jesus said you must be born-again. So how we are born the first time is nearly not as relevant as what happens when you are born a second time. And those who have been born a second time are children of the living God, who are indwelt by the Holy Spirit who would never encourage a homosexual relationship or lifestyle.
 
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Eireann

New member
Originally posted by Sozo
Even if she was born gay (which she wasn't).
I respect that you believe this, but why do you believe it? How do you know (not "believe," but "know") that homosexuals aren't genetically predisposed to their orientation? I'm not saying one way or the other, because I honestly don't know, but what are your objective criteria for making such an absolute statement?
 

wickwoman

New member
Dear Polycarpadvo:

Re: Evil loving Evil

Typical. Response. Here they come again!

Dear Calvinistkid:

My statements about God are about a person (me) using their head instead of quoting from a book constantly. You are obviously unfamiliar with this behavior.
 

wickwoman

New member
Condemnation

Condemnation

Do not dismiss those that call upon their Lord morning and evening, seeking His countenance. You are not accountable for them, just as they are not accountable for you. Then if you drive them away, you yourself may become one of the wrongdoers.

-Qur'an, Al-An'am, Surah 6:52
Translated by Aneela Khalid Arshed.
 

wickwoman

New member
O.K., that's from the Qur'an, you know. Now you can see how annoying it is when someone quotes from a book and doesn't express their own opinions. However, in this instance I agree with the Qur'an. Timeless wisdom comes in all kinds of packages, not just from the Bible.
 

Freak

New member
Originally posted by wickwoman
O.K., that's from the Qur'an, you know. Now you can see how annoying it is when someone quotes from a book and doesn't express their own opinions. However, in this instance I agree with the Qur'an. Timeless wisdom comes in all kinds of packages, not just from the Bible.

Did you know that Qur'an's false god Allah is impersonal? We do not read of him loving humanity in a personal way. Is this a god you really want to turn to (or his writings?).

Jesus however offers a personal relationship to all who come to Him.
 

wickwoman

New member
Dear Freak:

How often do you read the Qur'an? How much of the Qur'an have you read?


Back to the subject at hand:

I know a woman who used to use the "N" word until her daughter married a black man. Now she has black grandchildren and she doesn't use that word any more.

She realized that, through no fault of their own or anyone's for that matter, they were born black. It was totally out of their control. So how could being black be wrong? Of course, it's not.

It's the same for gay people. Until you love a gay person, it's easy for you to say it's their fault, or to call them faggots or to say God will send them to Hell. But when you have a truly personal and loving relationship with someone, you cannot condemn them.

When you raise your Bibles and point your "holier than thou" finger, you're no better than the white hooded men who burn crosses on black people's lawns. They think the Bible says black people are inferior. Does that make their hatred any less wrong?
 

Ryokan

New member
It is a pointless fight, wickwoman. The problem is they have a fundamentally different view of the world than you, one that would be shattered irrepably if they accepted your niece. And it is very scary to go through life without a set view.

And wickwoman tends toward the mystic end of things, so she knows God loves because she feels it, not cause any book says it. At least that is the way I interpret her.
 

Freak

New member
Originally posted by wickwoman
Dear Freak:

How often do you read the Qur'an? How much of the Qur'an have you read?


Back to the subject at hand:

I know a woman who used to use the "N" word until her daughter married a black man. Now she has black grandchildren and she doesn't use that word any more.

She realized that, through no fault of their own or anyone's for that matter, they were born black. It was totally out of their control. So how could being black be wrong? Of course, it's not.

It's the same for gay people. Until you love a gay person, it's easy for you to say it's their fault, or to call them faggots or to say God will send them to Hell. But when you have a truly personal and loving relationship with someone, you cannot condemn them.

When you raise your Bibles and point your "holier than thou" finger, you're no better than the white hooded men who burn crosses on black people's lawns. They think the Bible says black people are inferior. Does that make their hatred any less wrong?

I have read portions of the Koran. Tedious reading. I have lived in Islamic nations. Have you? Have you ever been under Sharia Law? I have. I speak from personal experience and knowledge.
 

Freak

New member
Wickwoman--

I have a few friends who have turned to lesbianism/homosexuality for one reason or another. I love them but do not accept their evil behaviour. Homosexuality destroys lives.
 
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