ARCHIVE: Is it ever OK for a Christian to hate someone?

[CRASH]

murder is by nature evil. any perversion of something God created/declared is evil.



to inform us that we should not do it.



i don't believe he hates people, but hates their deeds. he may hate things about them, but not the person themselves. if God hated individuals, i might question his goodness unless he explained to me some way where you could hate while loving them. but i don't understand how that could be.

GIT-

How do you hate the murder and not hate the murderer?



I agree that it does that but how will that help minister to the murderer? Can you not find it in your heart to hate a child molesting murderer?



Doesn't God say in many places in the Bible that he hates people?



I am proud of you! You stumbled on the key to this subject, which you will want to pray about. Hating and Loving at the same time can it be done? When I heard this idea first time I fought it pretty hard, but I am now convinced that it is certainly possible. I am going to bed now but will look forward to discussing it later.



P.S. Is there a feature when you respond where it will automatically break the peices of a post down into several quotes for ease of response? And if so can someone tell me how to do that? And how about spellcheck - is it integrated in here anywhere?? Thanks and God Bless!

 

[Bdiddie]

Jesus Loves You

 

[God_Is_Truth]

GIT-

How do you hate the murder and not hate the murderer?

if my brother committed murder, he would still be my brother, and i would still love him.

I agree that it does that but how will that help minister to the murder.

they will see the punishment of him. how would hating the murderer help deter those who murder?

Can you not find it in your heart to hate a child molesting murder?

no i cannot. i hate what they do, and believe they should be punished. but i do not hate the individual.

Doesn't God say in many places in the Bible that he hates people?

are not all people made in God's image? if we hate them, are we not hating God who made them?

James 3:9
With it we bless our Lord and Father, and with it we curse men, who have been made in the likeness of God;

I am proud of you! You stumbled on the key to this subject, which you will want to pray about. Hating and Loving at the same time can it be done? When I heard this idea first time I fought it pretty hard, but I am now convinced that it is certainly possible. I am going to bed now but will look forward to discussing it later.

at thist point i do not understand how that can be. how you can love through hating. to hate someone is not like them at all, to not love them. it means you do not treat them well, you do not care for them, you do not reach out to them at all. it means you seek their evil, their own demise, their destruction. i find that incompatible with love.

P.S. Is there a feature when you respond where it will automatically break the peices of a post down into several quotes for ease of response? And if so can someone tell me how to do that? And how about spellcheck - is it integrated in here anywhere?? Thanks and God Bless![/size][/color]

no integrated spell check. as for quotes, to individualize them, just put a [QU O TE] (without the spaces) and put [/QU O TE] at the end of the section.

 

[Vaquero45]

I guess I'm scared because I don't want to be like a certain preacher from Kansas* that also preaches that hate is morally neutral.

*http://www.godhatesamerica.com

Wow, I've heard of that group but haven't seen this link. Amazing.

 

[God_Is_Truth]

Wow, I've heard of that group but haven't seen this link. Amazing.

they're calvinists


hmm......:think:

 

[Jujubee]

Jesus Loves You

and he loves you :cloud9:

 

[Vaquero45]

they're calvinists


hmm......:think:

Well, if they are Calvinists, aren't they just pointing out the obvious?

"God predestined a bunch of perverts to hack off a bunch of self righteous idiots enough to make a website."

 

[Army of One]

i don't believe he hates people, but hates their deeds. he may hate things about them, but not the person themselves. if God hated individuals, i might question his goodness unless he explained to me some way where you could hate while loving them. but i don't understand how that could be.

Some verses to consider when asking whether God ever hates a person.

Lev. 20:23- "And you shall not walk in the statutes of the nation which I am casting out before you; for they commit all these things, and therefore I abhor them."

Lev. 26:30- "I will destroy your high places, cut down your incense altars, and cast your carcasses on the lifeless forms of your idols; and My soul shall abhor you."

Ps. 5:5,6- "The boastful shall not stand in Your sight; you hate all workers of iniquity. You shall destroy those who speak falsehood; the LORD abhors the bloodthirsty and deceitful man."

Ps. 11:5- "The LORD tests the righteous, but the wicked and the one who loves violence His soul hates."

Prov. 6:16-19- "These six things the LORD hates, yes, seven are an abomination to Him: A proud look, a lying tongue, hands that shed innocent blood, A heart that devises wicked plans, feet that are swift in running to evil, A false witness who speaks lies, and one who sows discord among brethren."

Hos. 9:15- "All their wickedness is in Gilgal, for there I hated them. Because of the evil of their deeds I will drive them from My house; I will love them no more. All their princes are rebellious."

And some verses about believers hating people (not just their actions):

Ps. 26:5- "I have hated the assembly of evildoers, and will not sit with the wicked."

Ps. 31:6- "I have hated those who regard useless idols; but I trust in the LORD."

Ps 119:113- "I hate the double-minded, but I love Your law."

Ps. 139:21,22- "Do I not hate them, O LORD, who hate You? And do I not loathe those who rise up against You? I hate them with perfect hatred; I count them my enemies."

Ecc. 3:1-8- "To everything there is a season, a time for every purpose under heaven:...A time to love, and a time to hate; a time of war, and a time of peace."

Jude 22,23- "And on some have compassion, making a distinction; but others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire, hating even the garment defiled by the flesh."

 

[David2]

how do understand jude 22:23 there 'army of one'?

nice post , i can make lotsa a good talk from it!

DAvid2

 

[JoyfulRook]

DAn2ine*

He is from another planet!

*(Shamless "Star Wars" reference.)

 

[Nathon Detroit]

Some verses to consider when asking whether God ever hates a person.

:up:

 

[ItIsWritten]

i don't believe he hates people...

Then what do you do with Ps. 5:5 "thou hatest all workers of iniquity", for example. Above Army of One posted this verse among others. And it does not say that he hates the "iniquity that they do", their "deeds of iniquity" or anything of the sort.

The inspired writers of Bible knew how to say the words deeds, works, ways, do, done, etc. as we see these words used in many other passages. So the question is, why did God inspire them NOT to use any such words to distinguish the focus of his hate in this verse? Did God actually inspire this wording in order to communictate something about himself that is essentially what we read in our English Bible today?

The only other option I can see is to suggest that this verse simply expresses the writer's personal (mistaken) opinion about God as opposed to reflecting a truth that God would have us to understand, but I'd be interested to hear how you respond to the words that God has preserved for us in this verse.

if God hated individuals, i might question his goodness unless he explained to me...

Try this instead. Rather than questioning God's goodness or requiring God to explain himself to you in a way that fits with your understanding of goodness, don't presume that your "knowledge of good and evil" gives you a proper foundation from which to quesiton his goodness.

When you find yourself thinking about questioning God's goodness, why not question your understanding instead -- and let his word be the standard by which such things are measured, his word including "thou hatest all workers of iniquity" (without trying to add words like deeds, etc. which he elected to omit)? Just a suggestion.

 

[bling]

God_Is_Truth I am with you on this all the way!! We can not avoid Jesus changing the commands. We are not under the old law.
Hating murder does not mean we hate the Murderer.
I hate what David did, but I love David.
We can judge the actions of a person as being evil, but we can not judge the person afterwards as being evil at that time.
I do not equate “Convince, rebuke, exhort, with all longsuffering and teaching” with hating people.
If I take all the O.T. references on hating people, it is not meant to be good for them to be hated, or some kind of blessing to be hated and is it neutral.

I agree with Knight that hate is not the opposite of love, the opposite of love if not caring even to hate. Hate is a strong emotion that can bring about change quickly, but that is usually in the person doing the hating, the person hated may not care or be drawn away. A couple that hate each other have something going for them, and change can happen quickly, but disconcert is hard to deal with.

 

[Poly]

We can not avoid Jesus changing the commands.

Matthew 5:18 "For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled."

 

[God_Is_Truth]

Matthew 5:18 "For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled."

Matthew 5
43"You have heard that it was said, 'YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR and hate your enemy.'

44"But I say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you

is Jesus not saying the one they heard was no longer to be followed, and the one he says is to be followed from here on?

 

[God_Is_Truth]

Army,

good verses. but i notice that all but one were from the old testament. and the only new testament one you used was a stretch in my opinion. so, with this in mind, i have to ask what you make of Matthew 5:43-44 where Jesus compared what they had heard with what he himself says. is Jesus not reinterpreting all those past verses? is he not giving a more clear understanding of them?

 

[CRASH]

Then what do you do with Ps. 5:5 "thou hatest all workers of iniquity", for example. Above Army of One posted this verse among others. And it does not say that he hates the "iniquity that they do", their "deeds of iniquity" or anything of the sort.

The inspired writers of Bible knew how to say the words deeds, works, ways, do, done, etc. as we see these words used in many other passages. So the question is, why did God inspire them NOT to use any such words to distinguish the focus of his hate in this verse? Did God actually inspire this wording in order to communictate something about himself that is essentially what we read in our English Bible today?

The only other option I can see is to suggest that this verse simply expresses the writer's personal (mistaken) opinion about God as opposed to reflecting a truth that God would have us to understand, but I'd be interested to hear how you respond to the words that God has preserved for us in this verse.


Try this instead. Rather than questioning God's goodness or requiring God to explain himself to you in a way that fits with your understanding of goodness, don't presume that your "knowledge of good and evil" gives you a proper foundation from which to quesiton his goodness.

When you find yourself thinking about questioning God's goodness, why not question your understanding instead -- and let his word be the standard by which such things are measured, his word including "thou hatest all workers of iniquity" (without trying to add words like deeds, etc. which he elected to omit)? Just a suggestion.

Excellent and applicable points! Thank You.

 

[Army of One]

Army,

good verses. but i notice that all but one were from the old testament. and the only new testament one you used was a stretch in my opinion. so, with this in mind, i have to ask what you make of Matthew 5:43-44 where Jesus compared what they had heard with what he himself says. is Jesus not reinterpreting all those past verses? is he not giving a more clear understanding of them?

So do you think that God hated people in the OT, but not in the NT? Did His character somehow change between the two testaments? I think you are mis-interpreting Matthew 5:43-44, in that you are assuming that, "you have heard that it was said" is refering to parts of the OT. Rather, I think He was refering to some of the false teaching that existed at the time, such as the idea that only one's neighbors (ie other Jews) should be loved.

 

[Army of One]

how do understand jude 22:23 there 'army of one'?

Well, I understand it as saying that we should, on some have compassion, making a distinction; but others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire, hating even the garment defiled by the flesh.

nice post , i can make lotsa a good talk from it!

DAvid2

:shocked: My apologies to the rest of TOL. :doh:

 

[God_Is_Truth]

So do you think that God hated people in the OT, but not in the NT?

i think the people misunderstood what God said in the OT.

Did His character somehow change between the two testaments?

no, that we agree on.

I think you are mis-interpreting Matthew 5:43-44, in that you are assuming that, "you have heard that it was said" is refering to parts of the OT. Rather, I think He was refering to some of the false teaching that existed at the time, such as the idea that only one's neighbors (ie other Jews) should be loved.

i disagree. all the other instances in that chapter are all quotes from the old testament as well. things like "eye for an eye" and "certificate of divorce" are directly from the old testament, and i see no reason to think he suddenly switched sources a few sentences later.

further, he goes on to link loving your enemy to what the Father does

Matthew 5
45so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven; for He causes His sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous.

46"For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Do not even the tax collectors do the same?

48"Therefore you are to be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

Jesus is saying that the Father loves those who hate him. we see no hint of a suggestion to hate back those who hate you. no, we are to love them, just as the Father loves them as demonstrated by sending rain and causing the sun to rise for them. how could you call these things "hateful" towards them? would such things really be evidence of hate? surely not!