Clete, this is an answer to your post proving me to be a “liar”
This is the last post were you showed even the slightest degree of intellectual honesty.
You mean hypothesizing with you? You mean agreeing with you?
In which he quotes where you admit that you cannot answer the very same questions about your own worldview that you insist that Christianity cannot answer.
What I was saying, the quote that Hilston I believe took out of context (he actually misquoting me several times, using the misquotes and twisting of my words to claim victory) is where I tell him he is creating arguments to which there are no answers in order to avoid the challenge. I could be wrong, I’ll go back, but I don’t recall ever admitting anything. Hilston was constantly misquoting me, taking my words out of context and twisting them in order to claim premature victory.
Then in post 151 you begin by showing clearly that you do understand the argument but then begin pretending not to understand the argument again. This is the point where you officially lost the debate.
Clete, that was where the debate got good for me! I asked Hilston how one would go about validating their senses, and his response was for me to convert to a Christian worldview! That was when the light turned on in my head and I began to notice the Christian apologetic of avoidance. Hilston created a situation in which only he could win, but I refused. I challenge the validity of your standard for validating your senses, the bible. That’s when the light went on in my head, Clete.
Oh yeah, and just who and how does one make a victory official around here?
Hilston said,
Only trust in Christ as revealed in the Scripture can validate your reasoning and sense faculties. With trust in Christ comes the gift of certainty, by which you can be certain about the verity of the Scriptures. By acknowledging Christ as the Source of all truth, and the Scriptures as His inerrant and infallible Word, you won't have to toss an apple in the air a million times to know that induction works. You will see it attested in the Scriptures, and since you will have certainty regarding the Scriptures, you can then be equally certain about what they infer, including the verity of the senses and the validity of logic and reason.
Christians are unable to prove their case apart from the bible. Hilston wasn’t able to do it when I refuted his whole BS hypothetical “sensory perception” argument.
I simply turned it around by challenging the basis for which he validated his own senses. I think the bible is BS, so if anyone’s senses are in doubt, it’s yours and Hilstons.
The last post that you quoted, Clete, was a classic case of Hilston taking questions I was ASKING and quoting them as though they were imperative statements. It is a classic case of Hilston twisting my words and now his lap dog is using my misquoted words to claim victory.
It’s sad.
The simple fact is that you have no way of knowing anything, by your own admission.
That’s what you said I said. You twisted my words and are now claiming that I said something imperatively that I only said inquisitively. It’s a cowardly strategy that you’re using right now, Clete.
Instead, you ignore the point and pretend that Jim and I are magicians who are adept at linguistic slight of hand and are trying to trick you or divert attention away from the topic at hand.
Man, you’ve been doing nothing but hitting the nail on the head lately Clete!
You stubbornly cling to a belief which you cannot validate or prove is true in any what whatsoever, the very thing which you accuse Christians of doing. You are a hypocrite, pure and simple, and I have proven that much at least, which was the whole point of my having gotten involved in this thread in the first place.
Not so again. I can prove what I believe to not only myself, but seeing as how I believe the sky is blue, the earth is round, up is up and down is down, I have no problem convincing people of the validity of what I believe. You say that apart from the bible there is no certainty about any of the things I listed above.
You’re wrong, pure and simple. I have sat at both sides of the table, the Christian and the ex-christian. There is certainty in what I know, telling me that there isn’t doesn’t change anything. I know it’s hard for you to believe that apart from Christianity people do have peace, but they do. I haven’t had so much peace in my entire life since I left Christianity, and I venture a guess that any other ex would say the same thing.
I truly do not understand how you aren't understanding this argument. I am not saying that things cannot be proven! I AM NOT SAYING THAT!
Clete, it’s because you have a really crummy argument. It’s hypothetical, childish and circular. It’s based on what MAY BE instead of WHAT IS and WHAT CAN BE PROVEN. That’s why no one understands it. It’s foolishness.
Clete, accept the possibility that you could be wrong here.
You have created more questions than you have answered with your pathetically circular and childish hypothetical arguments.
Answer the question:
Can you supply any amount of proof, proof that can be tested by one or all of the five senses by any man woman or child, proof that proves the validity of the bible. This proof must be separate from the bible, and that means that the proof must be separate from what the bible says in any context.
If you cannot answer this directly, I will assume that you have no proof and are trying to equivocate and dodge the challenge as your apologetics teach you to do.
Clete, I expect you to dodge the challenge and fall back on empty claims of victory based on misquotes and circular hypothesis.
I expect you to fail the challenge.
