ARCHIVE: Fool is only fooling himself

[fool]

This looks like a side issue to me. Maybe it should have it's own thread?

There's enough threads.
This one will do just fine.

 

[koban]

They didn't save Sodom and Gomorrah, did they?

Genesis 18
23And Abraham drew near, and said, Wilt thou also destroy the righteous with the wicked?
24Peradventure there be fifty righteous within the city: wilt thou also destroy and not spare the place for the fifty righteous that are therein?
25That be far from thee to do after this manner, to slay the righteous with the wicked: and that the righteous should be as the wicked, that be far from thee: Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right?
26And the LORD said, If I find in Sodom fifty righteous within the city, then I will spare all the place for their sakes.
27And Abraham answered and said, Behold now, I have taken upon me to speak unto the LORD, which am but dust and ashes:
28Peradventure there shall lack five of the fifty righteous: wilt thou destroy all the city for lack of five? And he said, If I find there forty and five, I will not destroy it.
29And he spake unto him yet again, and said, Peradventure there shall be forty found there. And he said, I will not do it for forty's sake.
30And he said unto him, Oh let not the LORD be angry, and I will speak: Peradventure there shall thirty be found there. And he said, I will not do it, if I find thirty there.
31And he said, Behold now, I have taken upon me to speak unto the LORD: Peradventure there shall be twenty found there. And he said, I will not destroy it for twenty's sake.
32And he said, Oh let not the LORD be angry, and I will speak yet but this once: Peradventure ten shall be found there. And he said, I will not destroy it for ten's sake.​

Genesis 19
24Then the LORD rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD out of heaven;
25And he overthrew those cities, and all the plain, and all the inhabitants of the cities, and that which grew upon the ground.​

I am pretty sure that there were at least 10 infants in those cities.

Is there a third choice besides righteous and unrighteous?

 

[genuineoriginal]

Is there a third choice besides righteous and unrighteous?

I am fairly certain that there could be a third choice, but I haven't found it yet.
In the case I cited, the cities were determined to be wicked and in need of destruction to prevent the evil from spreading. There was a severe lack of righteousness in the cities.

Romans 3
10As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:​

 

[koban]

I am fairly certain that there could be a third choice, but I haven't found it yet.
In the case I cited, the cities were determined to be wicked and in need of destruction to prevent the evil from spreading. There was a severe lack of righteousness in the cities.

Romans 3
10As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:​

Can an infant be "wicked" ?

If so, doesn't it follow that all infants are wicked, or unrighteous?

 

[genuineoriginal]

Can an infant be "wicked" ?

If so, doesn't it follow that all infants are wicked, or unrighteous?

I don't know. :sigh:

Romans 5
12Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
13(For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
14Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.
15But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.
16And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.
17For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)
18Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
19For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.​

This seems to be the main passage addressing the issue. I read it as saying that Adam's sin results in death for everyone "even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression." It seems to say that the offense of Adam was so great that all men are condemned. I don't know of any other way to read it.
This apparantly puts infants into the "condemned for Adam's sins" category. It is only the ones who are able to become righteous that are able to be called righteous.

 

[On Fire]

your god's orders are followed in verse 20, and Joshua's orders are followed in verse 21.

"20 When the trumpets sounded, the people shouted, and at the sound of the trumpet, when the people gave a loud shout, the wall collapsed; so every man charged straight in, and they took the city. 21 They devoted the city to the LORD and destroyed with the sword every living thing in it—men and women, young and old, cattle, sheep and donkeys."

God spoke in 3rd person, past tense? :darwinsm:

 

[allsmiles]

:readthis:

Deuteronomy 7
1When the LORD thy God shall bring thee into the land whither thou goest to possess it, and hath cast out many nations before thee, the Hittites, and the Girgashites, and the Amorites, and the Canaanites, and the Perizzites, and the Hivites, and the Jebusites, seven nations greater and mightier than thou;
2And when the LORD thy God shall deliver them before thee; thou shalt smite them, and utterly destroy them; thou shalt make no covenant with them, nor shew mercy unto them:
. . .
16And thou shalt consume all the people which the LORD thy God shall deliver thee; thine eye shall have no pity upon them: neither shalt thou serve their gods; for that will be a snare unto thee.
. . .
23But the LORD thy God shall deliver them unto thee, and shall destroy them with a mighty destruction, until they be destroyed.
. . .

Deuteronomy 9
1Hear, O Israel: Thou art to pass over Jordan this day, to go in to possess nations greater and mightier than thyself, cities great and fenced up to heaven,
2A people great and tall, the children of the Anakims, whom thou knowest, and of whom thou hast heard say, Who can stand before the children of Anak!
3Understand therefore this day, that the LORD thy God is he which goeth over before thee; as a consuming fire he shall destroy them, and he shall bring them down before thy face: so shalt thou drive them out, and destroy them quickly, as the LORD hath said unto thee.
4Speak not thou in thine heart, after that the LORD thy God hath cast them out from before thee, saying, For my righteousness the LORD hath brought me in to possess this land: but for the wickedness of these nations the LORD doth drive them out from before thee.
5Not for thy righteousness, or for the uprightness of thine heart, dost thou go to possess their land: but for the wickedness of these nations the LORD thy God doth drive them out from before thee, and that he may perform the word which the LORD sware unto thy fathers, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.​

allsmiles, I believed you missed a few paragraphs again.

oh okay, so your god did order the genocide, in fact it was pre-meditated.

right on, my bad! :thumb:

 

[allsmiles]

:dizzy:
I am not sure I believe what I am seeing!

allsmiles argues against a point being mythological, then turns around and praises a mythological person for having great ideas??????????
:help: Am I the only person who sees the contradiction???

yo, genuineoriginal :wave2:

i'll repeat myself because you obviously didn't get it the first time:

i don't need to believe in an historical Sun Tzu for the ideas attributed to him to make sense... :duh:

 

[Nathon Detroit]

yo, moron :wave2:

:nono:

 

[Nathon Detroit]

Did we intentionally kill innocent non-combatants?

What else would you call it?

It's called war.

Maybe you have heard of it??? :think:

 

[Stripe]

but you do need to believe in a historical God for extended discussion about him to have any relevance for your life.

 

[logos_x]

Yes, if I recall correctly, Aimiel believes Jesus will speak and his words will cause people to explode and blood to burst out of them.

:thumb:

Sounds like good material for an Indiana Jones movie.

 

[Balder]

:nono:

No-no? You called me an idiot yesterday. You have called others on this thread idiots too. Try to set a better example, dear forum leader.

 

[allsmiles]

don't worry about it Balder, i have to hold myself to a higher standard around here and that's not Knight's responsibility.

 

[Nathon Detroit]

No-no? You called me an idiot yesterday. You have called others on this thread idiots too. Try to set a better example, dear forum leader.

Dear Balder let me set he record straight for the 100th time....

I (Knight) = host
You (Balder & allsmiles etc) = guest

I have a different dispensation than you or allsmiles do. Also my friends and the people I agree with have a different dispensation than the people I disagree with.

Get it?

Furthermore... allsmiles comment wasn't that big a deal, I just gave him the "nono" smilie because I felt his insult was a bit "out of the blue" since genuineoriginal was making a good point.

Sit back... relax and get it through your head that TOL is not fair. We are biased and exist in large part to mock the wicked.

 

[Balder]

Dear Balder let me set he record straight for the 100th time....

I (Knight) = host
You (Balder & allsmiles etc) = guest

I have a different dispensation than you or allsmiles do. Also my friends and the people I agree with have a different dispensation than the people I disagree with.

Get it?

Furthermore... allsmiles comment wasn't that big a deal, I just gave him the "nono" smilie because I felt his insult was a bit "out of the blue" since genuineoriginal was making a good point.

Sit back... relax and get it through your head that TOL is not fair. We are biased and exist in large part to mock the wicked.

Hey, Knight, relax too! I was just having a little fun pointing out your double standard. But I recognize your right as the host of this forum to be as inconsistent and arbitrary as you like.

 

[Nathon Detroit]

Hey, Knight, relax too! I was just having a little fun pointing out your double standard. But I recognize your right as the host of this forum to be as inconsistent and arbitrary as you like.

I am as relaxed as possible. It's all good. :up:

 

[soothsayer]

Can we quit :box: and get back to the issue(s) at hand?

 

[allsmiles]

the important part is that we can disagree and be friends :thumb:

 

[Stripe]

the important part is that we can disagree and be friends :thumb:

i disagree .. .. hehehe

*hides*