freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
Continuing a civil dialogue......
Continuing a civil dialogue......
I think an extreme penchant towards villianizing the human condition and emphasizing depravity is in hand here, when its not necessary, as the scriptures also tell of persons being 'righteous', living holy lives of devottion, and being 'without guile'. The God of the OT also clearly says that men are able to keep his law, and choose life. The response of man is always within the providence of God to ensure his blessing. (we also understand that God empowers this trust by giving a new heart and spirit, transforming the soul).
Paul quotes some of the verses in the OT about 'none being righteous' but these are just literary allusions or exaggerations to make a point in his discourse (to support his own commentary), but there is no proof or evidence of 'original sin' beyond man's natural potential by free will to 'miss the mark',...and since we have free will, and a proclivity towards selfishness, the whole spectrum of 'good' and 'evil' can be experienced by humanity. Paul quotes other passages out of context to give his discourse some kind of credibility.
We would also remind you that traditional Orthodox Judaism does not teach or espouse a concept of 'Original Sin', and they are more apt to know their own scriptures apart from Christian innovations. - see -
Are Men Born Sinners?
The Myth of Original Sin
A balanced view is essential here, since 'God' does call for men to 'respond' and 'change their mind' (repent) and to 'follow' his ways. One cannot deny that there is some 'self-effort' and 'choice' involved here, all within the provision of grace of course. It is the extreme view held by some or believed to be held, that one can have free license to 'sin' and still be covered by some theoritical 'atonement' because Jesus already paid for your sins, that is a contorted and irresponsible belief, because no matter one's belief or 'faith',...one still reaps what he sows and by the law of karma (actions and their results), all thoughts, words and actions have consequences (however these are ultiimately mediated, they must be resolved, absolved, recompensed). All 'choices' have their effects. This is a universal law, (I use the word 'karma' in its truest sense, meaning 'action' and their corresponding effects) no matter what kind of 'soteriology' you espouse. There are most complex levels within the greater equation but these points are pertinent.
I take on 'Way 2 go' as he calls out my commentary on karma here
You will further note that in Revelation, there are rewards and penalties given for our works, we will receive the recompense of our choices to choose God or not, and all souls are judged 'according to their works'. Rewards are given to 'those who overcome'. One does not overcome by some magical osmosis or some credit given to them from some cosmic bank account, one's own choice and effort is involved in co-operating with the grace given, so that by such a marriage, the soul and God are partners in the partaking of his provision.
Original Sin dogma has probably done much damage, instead of recognizing the divine good and potential God has created us with already, by origination and our potential to become more like God. In this case, I recommmend Matthew Fox's book, 'Original Blessing' to offset some of the negatives given by Original Sin doctrine. - this gesture to appreciate original goodness does not discount the grace of God in anyway, but accentuates it, and gives a more ennobled view of man who is God's creation, uplifting the whole of creation in that context.
Continuing a civil dialogue......
No, in what you call "easy believism," believing that that all the LORD God requires from rotten, dirty, no good, undeserving sinners, is that they shut their self righteous mouths, and admit their guilt, "every mouth that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God," that they have sinned,in what they do, don't do, in what they think, and what they don't think, and thus "come short of the glory of God,"(Romans 3:19-23 KJV), and they accept the only, sole provision provided by the LORD God, the dbr of the Lord Jesus Christ, as the sole solution to the sin/sins, issue,"justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus(Romans 3:24 KJV)," as a free, "no strings attached" gift(by definition=survey Ephesians 2:8 KJV, Romans 6:3 KJV),is not "easy," as you muse, as it is the most difficult thing for the self righteous man/woman to undertake, because of pride, and their failure to understand their dire condition, their failure to understand that just being a "more cleaner rat" than their fellow rats, "does not cut it," as the #1 attribute of the LORD God, in the book, is his holiness(survey Isaiah), and thus, their "easy workism," is actually quite "easy," to the self righteous, "pull yourself by your own apron springs, self efforts,"and explains why most are lost.
No, God the Father, will not allow the most beautiful person to ever walk this grave yard, witness His only begotten Son to be mocked, spit upon, beaten, whipped, have his beard torn off, and then crucified, and then be questioned, spitefully insulted, by you self righteous rats, who compare each other with themselves, instead of the standard of righteousness, the Lord Jesus Christ, "the righteousness of God," with your,"How much do I owe you for this gift, as I do not want this 'easy believism'!!!!!!!!Look at my work, instead of the Saviour!!! I deserve it!!! I deserve a gift of God, eternal life, by what I do!!!!!!!!?"
No, "easy workism"..............
This brilliant post, is "Post Of The Year."
I think an extreme penchant towards villianizing the human condition and emphasizing depravity is in hand here, when its not necessary, as the scriptures also tell of persons being 'righteous', living holy lives of devottion, and being 'without guile'. The God of the OT also clearly says that men are able to keep his law, and choose life. The response of man is always within the providence of God to ensure his blessing. (we also understand that God empowers this trust by giving a new heart and spirit, transforming the soul).
Paul quotes some of the verses in the OT about 'none being righteous' but these are just literary allusions or exaggerations to make a point in his discourse (to support his own commentary), but there is no proof or evidence of 'original sin' beyond man's natural potential by free will to 'miss the mark',...and since we have free will, and a proclivity towards selfishness, the whole spectrum of 'good' and 'evil' can be experienced by humanity. Paul quotes other passages out of context to give his discourse some kind of credibility.
We would also remind you that traditional Orthodox Judaism does not teach or espouse a concept of 'Original Sin', and they are more apt to know their own scriptures apart from Christian innovations. - see -
Are Men Born Sinners?
The Myth of Original Sin
A balanced view is essential here, since 'God' does call for men to 'respond' and 'change their mind' (repent) and to 'follow' his ways. One cannot deny that there is some 'self-effort' and 'choice' involved here, all within the provision of grace of course. It is the extreme view held by some or believed to be held, that one can have free license to 'sin' and still be covered by some theoritical 'atonement' because Jesus already paid for your sins, that is a contorted and irresponsible belief, because no matter one's belief or 'faith',...one still reaps what he sows and by the law of karma (actions and their results), all thoughts, words and actions have consequences (however these are ultiimately mediated, they must be resolved, absolved, recompensed). All 'choices' have their effects. This is a universal law, (I use the word 'karma' in its truest sense, meaning 'action' and their corresponding effects) no matter what kind of 'soteriology' you espouse. There are most complex levels within the greater equation but these points are pertinent.
I take on 'Way 2 go' as he calls out my commentary on karma here
You will further note that in Revelation, there are rewards and penalties given for our works, we will receive the recompense of our choices to choose God or not, and all souls are judged 'according to their works'. Rewards are given to 'those who overcome'. One does not overcome by some magical osmosis or some credit given to them from some cosmic bank account, one's own choice and effort is involved in co-operating with the grace given, so that by such a marriage, the soul and God are partners in the partaking of his provision.
Original Sin dogma has probably done much damage, instead of recognizing the divine good and potential God has created us with already, by origination and our potential to become more like God. In this case, I recommmend Matthew Fox's book, 'Original Blessing' to offset some of the negatives given by Original Sin doctrine. - this gesture to appreciate original goodness does not discount the grace of God in anyway, but accentuates it, and gives a more ennobled view of man who is God's creation, uplifting the whole of creation in that context.