All the Feasts are fulfilled? That's Full Preterism!

[Drake Shelton]

But, I haven't claimed that the Micah prophesy has already happened, but Allegorists do claim that Zech 14 has already happened.

We'll see.

Then you reject the Scripture. That prophecy concerned judgment on Jerusalem and Samaria. Read 2 Kings 17 and 18. God's judgment was fulfilled under king Shalmaneser.

 

[Drake Shelton]

The three fall feasts (Trumpets, Atonement & Tabernacles) were fulfilled in 70AD.

Can I get some evidence for this?

However, the judgment has not happened yet.

Then trumpets and the harvest feasts were not fulfilled.

That happens when the thousand years is over.

Are you saying that there are two judgments and two physical resurrections? If so, you are in error for the teaching of the Bible is that the wicked and righteous are all judged on the same day. Mat. 13:24-30, 25:31-46, John 5:28-29, 6:39-40, 54, 11:24, Acts 17: 31, 24:15, Rom. 2:5-6, 2 Thess. 1:6-10.

Satan is released for a little while before the thousand years is over, and then the final judgment.

John 12:31 Now judgment is upon this world; now the ruler of this world will be cast out. 32 And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to Myself.”

 

[Drake Shelton]

To claim there are OT prophecies unfulfilled, is to call Christ Jesus a failure.

Can I get some proof of this or are you just going to stand on your own authority?

 

[Drake Shelton]

Either Jesus fulfilled the law and prophets, or every jot and tittle is still in place.

Dispensationalists (Darby Followers) try to skirt this issue by claiming a secret parenthetical dispensation was sandwiched into time while Jesus is taking a break from fulfilling the law and prophets. Then they have themselves getting secretly raptured away right before Jesus is done with His break and then they have Jesus getting back to fulfilling the law and prophets while they are taken away somewhere.

So then he came to do away with the law! Making verse 17 a lie.

 

[Drake Shelton]

(Matt 5:18) For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.

Absolutely disgusting. You deliberately left out verse 17.

 

[tetelestai]

Absolutely disgusting. You deliberately left out verse 17.

Verse 17 proves you even more wrong.

(Matt 5:17) “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.

Jesus makes it clear that until He fulfilled the Law and Prophets, every jot and tittle was still in place.

You claim Jesus hasn't fulfilled the Law and Prophets yet. Therefore, according to Jesus, every jot and tittle is still in place.

I believe Jesus fulfilled all of the Law and Prophets.

You should really learn the difference between "abolish" and "fulfill".

 

[tetelestai]

Where were they standing in Acts 1:11?

They were standing on the Mount of Olives.

Nothing in Act 1 says Jesus returns to the Mount of Olives.

 

[tetelestai]

A thousand years is indeed a long time and the word 'thousand/chilioi' is not hyperbole.

(Psalm 50:10) for every animal of the forest is mine, and the cattle on a thousand hills.


"thousand hills" is used as hyperbole in the above verse.

"thousand hills" is hyperbole just like "thousand years" is.

 

[tetelestai]

Can I get some evidence for this?

Read Matt chp 24, Luke chp 21, and Mark chp 13

Then trumpets and the harvest feasts were not fulfilled.

Yes they were.

Are you saying that there are two judgments and two physical resurrections?

One judgement (hasn't happened yet).

Two resurrections, one for the just, one for the unjust. The one for the just happened in 70AD, the one for the unjust hasn't happened yet. It will happen when the "thousand years" is over.

(Rev 20:5) (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection.

If so, you are in error for the teaching of the Bible is that the wicked and righteous are all judged on the same day.

No they are not, see the above verse:

John 12:31 Now judgment is upon this world; now the ruler of this world will be cast out. 32 And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to Myself.”

Satan was cast out of heaven in 30AD (when Christ Jesus ascended to Heaven)

The judgment that came upon the world, was the destruction of the temple and Jerusalem in 70AD.

 

[JonahofAkron]

Verse 17 proves you even more wrong.

(Matt 5:17) “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.

Jesus makes it clear that until He fulfilled the Law and Prophets, every jot and tittle was still in place.

You claim Jesus hasn't fulfilled the Law and Prophets yet. Therefore, according to Jesus, every jot and tittle is still in place.

I believe Jesus fulfilled all of the Law and Prophets.

You should really learn the difference between "abolish" and "fulfill".

Except that heaven and earth are still here. No big deal.

 

[tetelestai]

Can I get some proof of this or are you just going to stand on your own authority?

Jesus said He came to fulfill the Law and Prophets.

Jesus made it clear that some of His contemporaries would still be alive when He returned to finish the fulfillment.

(Matt 24:34) Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened.

 

[tetelestai]

Except that heaven and earth are still here. No big deal.

"heaven and earth" is the old covenant.

"the new heavens and the new earth" are the new covenant.

Moses said the following:

(Deut 4:26) I call the heavens and the earth as witnesses against you this day that you will quickly perish from the land that you are crossing the Jordan to possess.

As we see above, Moses referred to the Law and Prophets (old covenant) as a witness. Moses called the Old Covenant "heavens and the earth"

 

[Drake Shelton]

Verse 17 proves you even more wrong.

(Matt 5:17) “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.

Jesus makes it clear that until He fulfilled the Law and Prophets, every jot and tittle was still in place.

You claim Jesus hasn't fulfilled the Law and Prophets yet. Therefore, according to Jesus, every jot and tittle is still in place.

I believe Jesus fulfilled all of the Law and Prophets.

You should really learn the difference between "abolish" and "fulfill".

He said he didn't come to abolish the law. You say he did. Quit playing these games.

 

[Drake Shelton]

Read Matt chp 24, Luke chp 21, and Mark chp 13

You didn't answer my question. None of those chapters say those feasts were fulfilled.

Yes they were.

Yeah, I smell a block coming on.


Yeah, you didn't answer a thing I said. You totally left out the paragraph of verses I cited.

 

[Drake Shelton]

"heaven and earth" is the old covenant.

"the new heavens and the new earth" are the new covenant.

Moses said the following:

(Deut 4:26) I call the heavens and the earth as witnesses against you this day that you will quickly perish from the land that you are crossing the Jordan to possess.

As we see above, Moses referred to the Law and Prophets (old covenant) as a witness. Moses called the Old Covenant "heavens and the earth"

LOL! Unbelievable! It is moments like these I still wish we had an Inquisition.

 

[steko]

(Psalm 50:10) for every animal of the forest is mine, and the cattle on a thousand hills.


"thousand hills" is used as hyperbole in the above verse.

"thousand hills" is hyperbole just like "thousand years" is.

'eleph' is indeed used hyperbolically in Hebrew.

'chilioi' in Greek is not.

'murias' is the word used for a large indefinite number, in Greek.

 

[steko]

Then you reject the Scripture. That prophecy concerned judgment on Jerusalem and Samaria. Read 2 Kings 17 and 18. God's judgment was fulfilled under king Shalmaneser.

I don't reject Scripture.
You're correct concerning Micah, but Zech 14 has not happened yet.

We'll see.

 

[tetelestai]

He said he didn't come to abolish the law. You say he did. Quit playing these games.

Again, learn the difference between "fulfilled" and "abolish"

What do you think "fulfilled" means?

Do you think the law is still in place after it is fulfilled?

For example the Passover was fulfilled by Christ Jesus when He Himself became the sacrifice.

Therefore, the Passover Feast has been fulfilled, it no longer is a requirement.

Jesus didn't abolish Passover, He fulfilled it.

 

[JonahofAkron]

Again, learn the difference between "fulfilled" and "abolish"

What do you think "fulfilled" means?

Do you think the law is still in place after it is fulfilled?

For example the Passover was fulfilled by Christ Jesus when He Himself became the sacrifice.

Therefore, the Passover Feast has been fulfilled, it no longer is a requirement.

Jesus didn't abolish Passover, He fulfilled it.

If by 'fulfilled', you mean 'completed as to make invalid for application', you are still wrong. Abolish and fulfill in your writing both have the same meaning

 

[tetelestai]

'chilioi' in Greek is not.

Not according to Strongs:

Word: cilioi

Pronounce: khil'-ee-oy

Strongs Number: G5507

Orig: plural of uncertain affinity; a thousand:--thousand.

Use: TDNT-9:466,1316 Adjective

Heb Strong:

1) a thousand