Aimiel, can you elaborate on your title as "prophet"?

[Aimiel]

Originally posted by Sozo

Aimiel... read this again. You are really making an idiot of yourself.

Greet Andronicus and Junias, my kinsmen and my fellow prisoners; they are men of note among the apostles, and they were in Christ before me.

Why did your translator insert the word, "men," into the text, where it obviously doesn't belong? The name Junia is recognized to be a feminine name. Only an idiot would call someone names without doing any research at all. Obviously you don't know The Bible, and don't do any research. That's not very wise.

Salute Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen, and my fellowprisoners, who are of note among the apostles, who also were in Christ before me.

 

[Sozo]

Originally posted by Aimiel

Why did your translator insert the word, "men," into the text, where it obviously doesn't belong? The name Junia is recognized to be a feminine name. Only an idiot would call someone names without doing any research at all. Obviously you don't know The Bible, and don't do any research. That's not very wise.

Salute Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen, and my fellowprisoners, who are of note among the apostles, who also were in Christ before me.

Not my translator, you fool.

The translation is the RSV (revised standard version)

:darwinsm:

"kinsmen" Aimiel. :kookoo:

They are of note among the apostles. They are not apostles.

You are an idiot, and will do or say anything to justify your egomanical ambitions.

 

[Aimiel]

Originally posted by Sozo

Not my translator, you fool.

You're in danger.

The translation is the RSV (revised standard version)

"kinsmen" Aimiel.

Yes, and if we say, "Here comes the mailman," it means person, since USPS Letter Carriers can be females. Relatives (kinsmen, by definition) are often also female, and are often found to be so (in historical documents) by the spelling of their name.

The are of note among the apostles. They are not apostles.

They aren't of note to, but of note among. Please take a remedial reading course. Is English your second language? What is your first language, monkey-speak?

You are an idiot, and will do or say anything to justify your egomanical ambitions.

Thank you.

 

[Sozo]

Perhaps more significant than either of these, however, is a Latin quotation from Origen (died 252 A.D.), in the earliest extant commentary on Romans: He says that Paul refers to "Andronicus and Junias and Herodian, all of whom he calls relatives and fellow captives (Andronicus, et Junias, et Herodion, quos omnes et cognatos suos, et concaptivos appellat)" (Origen's commentary on Romas, preserved in a Latin translation by Rufinus, c. 345-c.410 A.D., in J. P. Migne, Patrologia Graeca, vol. 14, col. 1289). The name Junias here is a Latin masculine singular nominative, implying-if this ancient translation is reliable-that Origin (who was one of the ancient world's most proficient scholars) thought Junias was a man. Coupled with the quotation from Epiphanias, this quotation makes the weight of ancient evidence support this view.

Aimiel... YOU ARE A FOOL!!

YOU ARE A LIAR!!!

YOU ARE NOT A PROPHET!!!

YOU ARE A DELUDED SELF-PROMOTER!


The "apostles" hold them in high regard. They are not apostles!

You have the bible knowledge of a slug.

 

[Granite]

If Aimiel would explain what he thinks a prophet is, or what a prophet's gifts are, it might clarify a thing or two...

 

[Aimiel]

Originally posted by Sozo

Aimiel... YOU ARE A FOOL!

The only prerequisite to your infantile tirade is to merely disagree with your closed-minded dim view of a single portion of scriptures, which doesn't ever closely trespass upon Truth.

YOU ARE A LIAR!

Excuse me? Where do you see me telling ONE SINGLE LIE? Also, please keep your voice down, the baby's sleeping.

YOU ARE NOT A PROPHET!

God and I both disagree with you, as do many of my friends.

YOU ARE A DELUDED SELF-PROMOTER!

No, I'm not, I'm Republican.

The "apostles" hold them in high regard. They are not apostles!

You're disagreeing with the obvious language implications, and with the majority of Biblical scholars.

You have the bible knowledge of a slug.

Coming from you, I consider this antoher compliment.
_________________________________
The following is from: http://www.godswordtowomen.org/junia-preato.htm

"Junia was a female apostle. This is the preferred view. The evidence is authoritative, compelling, diverse, and objective. Junia has been demonstrated to be a woman based on the testimony of early manuscripts, recorded statements of various church leaders through the 12th century, and research performed by many other scholars attesting to the name Junia or Julia existing in ancient times.

The evidence for a male reading was based on later manuscripts subject to the interpretations of scribes who thought Iounian was a male and to the statement by one early church leader who was also mistaken as to the correct gender of Prisca. Computer generated searches could find no example of a male Junias in ancient times nor is there any evidence proving that Junias was ever a contracted form of a longer name.

Junia and Andronicus were apostles. Numerous contemporary and past scholarship, lexical definitions, grammatical construction, and scriptural examples all provide the strongest support that episemoi en tois apostolois, naturally meant they were "outstanding among the apostles," just as Chrysostom so elegantly declared."

"Andronicus and Junias were outstanding among the apostles probably by virtue of their apostolic sufferings, the numbers of years they had been in Christ, their labor, and their humble service for Christ. May the eyes of all those in the Church be opened to see this important truth and its significant implication in allowing women to minister equally as they are called by God. To do otherwise is to deny the full redemptive work of Christ."
________________________________________________


I guess Sozo thinks women should be silent in church, or maybe stay home, shoeless, and produce babies.

 

[Jackielabby]

 

[godrulz]

Romans 16:7

"Andronicus and Junias, greeted together, may have been husband and wife; Junias can be either masculine or feminine. Paul called them my relatives, which probably refers to a tribal, not a family kinship (cf. 9:3)....fellow prisoners...Paul commended them as outstanding (lit. having a mark on them, therefore illustrious, notable, outstanding) among the apostles. The word apostles is probably used here in the broader sense in which Barnabas, Silas, and others were called apostles (Acts 14:14; I Thess. 2:7). Or it could mean the apostles in the limited sense, referring to the reputation this pair had among the 12. They were in Christ before Paul (about 25 years)."

This commentator (Bible Knowledge Commentary) has the humility to recognize that this is not a salvific issue and there may be more than one POSSIBLE interpretation. He cannot be dogmatic based on the grammar and context alone.

Sozo is arrogant enough to think he alone has the answer and everyone else is idiot's to disagree.

Aimiel is humble enough to not claim prophetic insight into the passage. He is trying to study and search the Scriptures for the best interpretation.

Rulz is a carnal clown and desires to look into it more to prayerfully see where the historical, grammatical, contextual, literal, cultural, theological approach to Bible interpretation leads him. Consulting those who have done more research shows a disrespect for the Word and Spirit. One cannot use the sanctified intellect and teachers in the Body of Christ to get ideas. One should only use one's imagination even if it contradicts the historical data. Everyone else must be wrong if it questions sozo. It is spiritual to think every idea we have must be from the Spirit of truth. Jesus and Paul had to study the Scriptures without a cultural and language barrier. We do not have to do that because we are Christians.

"It is not certain whether the latter name should be Junias (masc.) or Junia (fem.)... The word kinsmen can mean either fellow countryman or blood relative...it is not clear from the text whether Andronicus and Junia were themselves apostles or simply highly regarded by the apostles..." (12 had special position, but word apostle not restricted to them). -Phillips

We cannot argue from silence.

In light of this, it is revealing how easy it is to be dogmatic when we cannot be so.

Sozo's labeling everyone a fool and idiot who disagrees with his misinformed dogmatism shows his lack of education and integrity. Relying on one translation (RSV was done by liberals, fool), is a bad idea.

Personally, I think God is showing us all something. In our desire to rightly divide the Word, we must come with humility, respect, and openness. We do not need to assassinate each other to make ourselves seem right and important.

Who is the idiot, fool, slug, liar here? I am sure he will never admit it, but it seems the kettle is calling others black.

 

[Aimiel]

Originally posted by granite1010

If Aimiel would explain what he thinks a prophet is, or what a prophet's gifts are, it might clarify a thing or two...

A prophet is one of the five-fold ministry gift offices (the others are apostle, pastor, evangelist and teacher) which are given to The Body of Christ by The Lord. They are called by Him, and anointed for their particular office by Him. He knows how to move upon men's hearts and to lead them in the way that He wishes them to go. He said that His Sheep hear His Voice and that they would not follow a stranger.

I don't believe that a prophet has any gifts that aren't given to anyone else who becomes saved. Often The Lord will use him powerfully to deliver a word in season, or will anoint his ministry with great things, but the person doesn't profit from it, that I've ever seen. At least not prophets who are prophets of The Lord. There are those who pretend to be prophets, and are actually no more anointed than psychics or sorcerers, and will, except they repent, one day find themselves in hell.

 

[Sozo]

Originally posted by Aimiel



I guess Sozo thinks women should be silent in church, or maybe stay home, shoeless, and produce babies.

I'm in good company...

Let the women keep silent in the churches; for they are not permitted to speak, but let them subject themselves

Older women likewise are to be reverent in their behavior, not malicious gossips, nor enslaved to much wine, teaching what is good, that they may encourage the young women to love their husbands, to love their children, to be sensible, pure, workers at home, kind, being subject to their own husbands, that the word of God may not be dishonored.

Therefore, I want younger widows to get married, bear children, keep house, and give the enemy no occasion for reproach

 

[Jackielabby]

There are those who pretend to be prophets, and are actually no more anointed than psychics or sorcerers, and will, except they repent, one day find themselves in hell.

And this does not apply to you, then?

 

[godrulz]

Don't confuse sozo with the facts, his mind is already made up.

Is the evidence about the minor text plausible, probable, or at least possible?

How about apologizing to us for thinking we are the idiots when you have egg on your face again (I won't bring up the 'pas'/all episode again...you have a fragile ego).:ha:

 

[Lighthouse]

Originally posted by Aimiel

You're in danger.

Tell me again why you chose to make this: :Servent:, Servent101's smilie? Didn't you say it was because he's a fool?

 

[Jackielabby]

Lighthouse and Sozo, we agree on something. Praise the homo sapien.

 

[Lighthouse]

As far as the gender of Junias is concerned, I don't care. But I would like to know why Aimiel feels he is a prophet. What evidence do you have for yourself, Aimiel? I was told that I was a prophet by someone, once. Actually, a few times. And others have said the same. But I have never declared it of myself. And I refuse to do so. Do I sometimes kow things before I am told? Yes. But not unless I need to know, or am about to find out anyway. When my dad sat me down to tell me of his past, I knew what he was going to say. And I also have found that I can pray exactly what someone needs, without them telling me what they need. I believe it is a gift from God. But I never prophesy that anything is going to happen.

 

[Aimiel]

Originally posted by Sozo

Originally posted by Aimiel

I guess Sozo thinks women should be silent in church, or maybe stay home, shoeless, and produce babies.

I'm in good company...

I surmise, from your lack of retort, that you read the rest of my post, and agreed with my research, that Junia (or Julia) was an apostle. :ha:

 

[godrulz]

Originally posted by lighthouse

As far as the gender of Junias is concerned, I don't care. But I would like to know why Aimiel feels he is a prophet. What evidence do you have for yourself, Aimiel? I was told that I was a prophet by someone, once. Actually, a few times. And others have said the same. But I have never declared it of myself. And I refuse to do so. Do I sometimes kow things before I am told? Yes. But not unless I need to know, or am about to find out anyway. When my dad sat me down to tell me of his past, I knew what he was going to say. And I also have found that I can pray exactly what someone needs, without them telling me what they need. I believe it is a gift from God. But I never prophesy that anything is going to happen.

Not all prophecy is foretelling. Some of it is forthtelling and revealing of hearts.

You may have words of knowledge of do not recognize when you are used prophetically.

 

[Aimiel]

Originally posted by lighthouse

Tell me again why you chose to make this: :Servent:, Servent101's smilie? Didn't you say it was because he's a fool?

I do think he is thouroughly deceived and very foolish, though I don't believe that I have ever said to him that he is a fool. :thumb:

 

[Aimiel]

Originally posted by Jackielabby

There are those who pretend to be prophets, and are actually no more anointed than psychics or sorcerers, and will, except they repent, one day find themselves in hell.

And this does not apply to you, then?

Of course it would, were I to pretend. This is something that prophets (those who hear from God and say what they're inspired to say) keep forefront in their mind as they speak, because speaking on another's behalf is a serious charge, and especially so when That Other is The Almighty.

 

[godrulz]

Originally posted by Aimiel

I'm in good company...

I surmise, from your lack of retort, that you read the rest of my post, and agreed with my research, that Junia (or Julia) was an apostle. :ha: [/QUOTE]

He may not have read it yet, or is flustered. He will be back with a blast. He can dish it out, but he cannot take it.

Since we are on the same team, it would be good to learn together, instead of one- up - manship = us vs them.