Active shooter near San Bernardino, CA

[Bright Raven]

Unlikely. It was a government building, so it was probably a "Holiday party." However, the tiramisu and pork sausages might have set him off.

Were they Jihadist's?

 

[Nathon Detroit]

I rarely (if ever) post memes but this one does seem to make a great point.

 

[rocketman]

Were they Jihadist's?

Absolutely they were!, much to the liberal deniers chagrin. It was well planned out, the islamofascists had over 1400 rds of .223 and 200 rds of 9mm on their person as well as IED's, tactical gear, this was not someone mad at coworkers but, a well planned attack. Our president still cannot bring himself to say, or admit, that there is radical islamic terrorists that desire to destroy the civilized world, he is still going on with his tired gun control rhetoric as if it would make a difference...absolutely delusional & misguided.

 

[rocketman]

I rarely (if ever) post memes but this one does seem to make a great point.

Liberals refuse to take responsibility for their worldview causing the deaths of these people. We can now all say, without reservation, that political correctness kills.

 

[musterion]

Liberals refuse to take responsibility for their worldview causing the deaths of these people.

Sorry, I disagree. It reminds me of the exchange from SUPERMAN (1978).

Superman: Is that how a warped brain like yours gets its kicks? By planning the death of innocent people?
Lex Luthor: No...by causing the death of innocent people.

 

[musterion]

https://youtu.be/MfsQlrA9-NA?t=12

 

[Nathon Detroit]

https://youtu.be/MfsQlrA9-NA?t=12

Come on... you can do it.... it's easy if you try....

Just look at my code for this...

Lex Luthor

 

[rocketman]

Sorry, I disagree. It reminds me of the exchange from SUPERMAN (1978).

Superman: Is that how a warped brain like yours gets its kicks? By planning the death of innocent people?
Lex Luthor: No...by causing the death of innocent people.

But unlike Lex, liberals deny that their worldview is responsible for anything. Another liberal trait: No Personal Responsibility. (It's George Bush's Fault, the guns fault, republicans fault, tea party's fault, et al)

 

[glorydaz]

But unlike Lex, liberals deny that their worldview is responsible for anything. Another liberal trait: No Personal Responsibility. (It's George Bush's Fault, the guns fault, republicans fault, tea party's fault, et al)

Yep. :thumb:

 

[Zeke]

I think this is going to be a hard point to take (or make successfully, on my end) but there is always a disparity between what a religion teaches (pure religion) and how its adherents keep that faith. But what I take as axiomatic - and this is probably going to be a sticking point that we will not agree upon - is that religions are spiritually inspired. And therefore, the religion itself is either inspired of God or of the devil (or even just man's imagination). The Qu'ran and the Bible do not come from the same source. That should be patently clear to anyone with even a passing familiarity with both of them.

As a Christian, I believe that the revelation of God as found in the Bible is truth and inspired by God Himself. All religions have that element of revelation. But what is the source of that revelation? If there is no such thing as Truth in the absolute sense, then we can pick and choose which we will believe and it's okay. But if some of (most of) these systems clash at some foundational point, then it can't be that they come from the same source. If that's the case, then whatever that source is is against itself and denies that any Truth is knowable. So if someone accepts that there is true religion, then they must, of necessity, accept mutual exclusivity and ultimately that there is only one Truth.

Jesus Christ claimed exclusivity for Christianity (as sprouted from the OT covenants) :

Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
John 14:6

Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.
All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them.
I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.
John 10:7-9 (small part of a larger discourse that establishes Jesus' exclusivity, calling and purpose)

So while there are many who call themselves Christians, the numbers that are actually Christ's is probably a far smaller number.

In a similar way, what Islam is (spiritually) is probably not really known by many (most?) Muslims. But history shows that it is first and foremost a militaristic and dominating religion that cannot tolerate servanthood. By contrast, Jesus said that those who would be greatest in the Kingdom of Heaven would be servant of all (Matthew 23:11). Even in the OT, God subjected Israel to slavery for over 400 years in Egypt - for the reason that He wanted them to remember what it was like so they didn't enslave anyone else! The OT is not a simple dissertation on true religion, but the experiences of those chosen of God to represent Him. They were seen for what they were - warts and all.

So while I would agree that it is possible - even likely - that the vast majority of Islam doesn't know what they are involved in, I believe that Islam is not inspired of God but rather inspired by something in direct contrast to Him as Islam has traditionally persecuted (often mercilessly) those who hold to the Bible (and the Qu'ran even directs this).

You may use the argument that Christians led the crusades. And I would, again, point out that this is not something that is entirely congruous with Christian scriptures. So I would argue that the crusades were largely Christians acting unChristian-like (in the true sense) while Jihad and terror is Islam acting in perfect accord with its energizing spirit. Again...compare the revelations of the Bible and of the Qu'ran



I think that's a facile comparison. Returning to my above argument, the core revelation of Christianity and the core revelation of Islam should be the mark of what fundamentalism should be. While ISIS is indeed indicative of a split in Islam, the fact remains that both Sunni and Shia believe in militaristic jihad and that even though ISIS is looking to dominate over the Shia (I think I have that straight), death to America and Israel and a universal caliphate are still foremost in their minds. The difference between the two is which one will rule the world. As a non-Muslim, does that distinction really matter to me?

But ISIS does represent the core of Islam's revelation whereas the KKK doesn't. And calling Heaven's Gate and Jim Jones in any sense Christian doesn't hold water since I don't think HG ever claimed Christianity and Jim Jones clearly was not (I think someone even said he hated Christianity). Either way, these fringe groups are not Christian in the thorough-going sense of the word.



I would challenge that last statement directly. While the bible enjoins capital punishment, there are very few situations that could be used to support your claim. And the very few that could are to be understood historically (for that is what they were - single instances in which God did command total obliteration of enemies). But note the difference between that as a standing order and that as an historically specific situation. While one might reasonably question how ethical that was, you can't escape the fact that God calls Himself holy and hates idolatry. Israel was to be His peculiar people - set apart for Him. And as they were looking to enter the land (and did have to fight to get there), if they were to remain representative, they couldn't have idols in their midst and so the order to eradicate a people in a given land (every last one in the geographical area) was meant to preserve that separation to God. Note that God wasn't saying "Kill the infidel wherever you find him" but to uphold Israel's own integrity, the Lord required purity. And before you shout "supremacist", note that this was a type - a foreshadowing - of the purity to be found in Christ. It wasn't an excuse for racism. Only separation. Israel was not to think of themselves as the greatest, but as the least (which was why God chose them). And that is found more fully in the spirit of Christ and the scripture I quoted above. Israel's own laws given by God were harsh - but they were for Israel and not the surrounding nations. God has a high standard and He was holding Israel to that standard.

The Qu'ran, on the other hand, is sometimes self-contradictory and rambling. But it is clearly supportive of ongoing militarism and destruction. It is not a religion of peace but of subordination and one that demeans human life.



Again, the argument against fundamentalisms is not even consistently used - otherwise Islam would be more roundly rejected (more Muslims acting consistent with its foundations than Christians with theirs) and Christianity (under which the West has flourished for several centuries) would be more largely accepted. The reason for that argument is to reject revealed religion (period) and have man at the center. That's really what is meant (generally today) by fundamentalism - anyone who actually believes in a transcendent God where man is NOT worshipped and God is. It's humanism in thin disguise.



Violence and resistance...where is the line? War may be ugly, but sometimes it's necessary to resist unto blood for something that is right. If one accepts that violence is the worst thing there is, then they are for complacency and tacit acceptance. Because if there is an enemy that is willing to resort to violence, then there will be violence - unless you capitulate. So whether one fights back or just resists, violence is inevitable - but is principle?

God Bless Christopher Columbus and all that peace and good will he came with, under the Christian Marque.

The Muslim radicals are the Lee Harvey Oswald of the latest Problem, Reaction, Solution, that the Elitists have used time and time again around the globe to divide and conquer, with the real motive is to make everyone who isn't hypnotized and speaks out the enemy.

Henry Kissinger an Elitist told everyone what they think of those stupid enough to fight for them, Dumb animals used for pawns in foreign policy, yet off to war young men and women go without a real clue about who and what they really are fighting for! What a gig, get you're enemy to fight for ya.

 

[rocketman]

Originally Posted by Knight View Post
First off... from the account I heard there was actually no disagreement at the party.

I've heard otherwise, but the reality is, neither of us know.

Maybe they were upset that Ham was served? :think:

Well yes. When I made that comment, those details hadn't been released. This still seems to have a component of workplace violence, mixed with terrorism.

Yea, they got mad ,went home, and on a whim loaded up the car with 1400rds of .223 cal. and 200rds of 9mm, made some IED's, put on the camo's & body armor and committed an act of workplace violence...Wow! Are you really this detached from reality? willfully ignorant? Naive? Put down the bong man! the Jihadists have arrived in CA, coming to a neighborhood near you. :noway:

 

[ok doser]

surely you're not suggesting that it was planned? :noway:

 

[patrick jane]

surely you're not suggesting that it was planned? :noway:

yes, of course it was - :devil:

 

[rocketman]

surely you're not suggesting that it was planned? :noway:

Obviously random workplace violence...that's what libs and their surrogates in the media are saying, it has to be correct. :idunno:

 

[Crucible]

I wish people (liberals) would stop with their obsession of protecting the reputation of Islam and just face reality.

All they had to do was reveal the race and affiliation of the shooter.
He's a Muslim. It's not a coincidence :doh:

This is the American Charlie Hebdo as far as I'm concerned. Workplace meets mass murder because someone in some way offended Islam.

 

[musterion]

Come on... you can do it.... it's easy if you try....

Just look at my code for this...

Lex Luthor

Such advanced technology frightens me. That's how the Krel destroyed themselves.

 

[musterion]

But unlike Lex, liberals deny that their worldview is responsible for anything. Another liberal trait: No Personal Responsibility. (It's George Bush's Fault, the guns fault, republicans fault, tea party's fault, et al)

True but the point is, they know better. That's why most head for the tall grass when threads like this one come up.

 

[rocketman]

True but the point is, they know better.

Do they? How so? the average liberal is a utopianist, a moral relativist how can you expect any person who has no moral absolutes to see the consequence of their flawed worldview? I personally believe they are oblivious to the destruction they have wrought on society as a whole.

That's why most head for the tall grass when threads like this one come up.

They certainly are not able to answer for the poor ideologic value set they impose upon society that cause & abet bad behavior that is for sure.

 

[musterion]

Do they? How so? the average liberal is a utopianist, a moral relativist how can you expect any person who has no moral absolutes to see the consequence of their flawed worldview? I personally believe they are oblivious to the destruction they have wrought on society as a whole.

I don't. The destruction they have wrought on society is the whole point; that's how you bring about utopia. Fundamental transformation and all that, remember? The man said you gotta break eggs to make that utopian omelette. They all believe we're just meaningless apes with thumbs and that there's too many of us anyway, so population control has to start somewhere.

They certainly are not able to answer for the poor ideologic value set they impose upon society that cause & abet bad behavior that is for sure.

Because they don't view it as poor. You give the benefit of the doubt as if it's some unfortunate side effect of their utopianism. I'm telling you it's baked into the cake. Ask this guy if he regrets anything he has said about population control, aborting newborns, etc. Then ask the same question about him to all the leftists who consider him an ultrarational demigod (and they are legion).

 

[rocketman]

I don't. The destruction they have wrought on society is the whole point; that's how you bring about utopia. Fundamental transformation and all that, remember? The man said you gotta break eggs to make that utopian omelette. They all believe we're just meaningless apes with thumbs and that there's too many of us anyway, so population control has to start somewhere.

I don't believe the average progressive is smart enough to understand that the worldview they have bought into is destructive to society, they actually believe themselves as far too intelligent to be duped. I would say even if faced with a laundry list of factual data of the cause & effect of their worldview they would still reject it.

Because they don't view it as poor. You give the benefit of the doubt as if it's some unfortunate side effect of their utopianism. I'm telling you it's baked into the cake. Ask this guy if he regrets anything he has said about population control, aborting newborns, etc. Then ask the same question about him to all the leftists who consider him an ultrarational demigod (and they are legion).

I believe you are correct when you are speaking of the progressive liberal leaders & social designers but, the actual rank & file? I believe are just duped, useful idiots who blindly accept all the crap that is fed to them, most of which are too young to remember when progressivism was just a notion, and there was never a school shooting, when there was respect for authority, when there was consequences, especially when there was personal responsibility. This overwhelming violence in our culture, acceptance of perversion under the guise of tolerance, political correctness (ignoring reality), openly lawless politicians are just but a few of the byproducts of this flawed ideology...these are all now acceptable, the new normal, and not one progressive liberal can connect the dots back to their flawed world view as the cause. It boggles the mind how so many can be so bewitched with this evil and be totally clueless as to why.