Act NOW to Save Terri Schiavo!

[Nineveh]

Originally posted by Zakath

And the legislative branch isn't supposed to get involved in current legal proceedings. That's the judiciary's job.

"They (the Congress and the president) are not overstepping their legal bounds, they have a right to confer jurisdiction on a court," Bork said,...

"President Bush signed the legislation early Monday morning that granted Terri Schiavo's parents the ability to sue in federal court ..."

But no worries... the deathocrat appointed judge ruled in favor of her murder.

 

[Zakath]

Originally posted by Nineveh

"They (the Congress and the president) are not overstepping their legal bounds, they have a right to confer jurisdiction on a court," Bork said,...

"President Bush signed the legislation early Monday morning that granted Terri Schiavo's parents the ability to sue in federal court ..."

But no worries... the deathocrat appointed judge ruled in favor of her murder.

Shows how effective changing venue sometimes is, right? :think:

But don't worry, maybe your deity will miraculously heal her so she can feed herself.

Wanna bet $100 that she dies before that happens?

 

[Nineveh]

Originally posted by Zakath

Shows how effective changing venue sometimes is, right? :think:

Shows congress wasn't out of bounds.

But don't worry, maybe your deity will miraculously heal her so she can feed herself.

Why try laying her starvation death at God's feet? Michael made vows to her. None of which he kept. Is that God's fault too?

Wanna bet $100 that she dies before that happens?

No, I'm not going to bet that her husband will starve her to death. People are held accountable for what people do, like it or not.

Besides, if God jumped in everytime a human commited an act of evil, you'd gripe about not having free will.

 

[Zakath]

Originally posted by Nineveh

Shows congress wasn't out of bounds.

And neither was the court.

Your point????

Why try laying her starvation death at God's feet?

I'm not. What I'm laying at your deity's feet (if he actually has feet), is whether or not he answers the diligent prayers of his followers and heals her.

If he cares so much about keeping her alive, it's not unreasonable to think that an entity that constructed the quantum cosmic structure underlying the universe could re-arrange a few neural connections so her brain will function properly.

Michael made vows to her. None of which he kept. Is that God's fault too?

People violate their marriage vows every day. So what does that have to do with a no-show by YHWH?

Besides, if God jumped in everytime a human commited an act of evil, you'd gripe about not having free will.

Hardly. If there was no free will, I couldn't gripe.

 

[Nineveh]

Originally posted by Zakath

And neither was the court.

Your point????

I didn't claim the court was acting outside it's bounds. Your point?

I'm not. What I'm laying at your deity's feet (if he actually has feet), is whether or not he answers the diligent prayers of his followers and heals her.

The feet of my God is run through with holes where humans nailed Him to a cross. We have a track record for being cruel to each other.

When did you start thinking Benny Hinn was telling the truth about miracle healing? Was it before or after you left tending His flock?

If he cares so much about keeping her alive, it's not unreasonable to think that an entity that constructed the quantum cosmic structure underlying the universe to re-arrange a few neural connects so her brain will function properly.

You mean it wouldn't be just as easy for michael to let someone help her eat?

People violate their marriage vows every day. So what does that have to do with a no-show by YHWH?

Michael made a promise to care for his wife. Why is God responsible for his hard evil heart?

Hardly. If there was no free will, I couldn't gripe.

You'd manage, I'm sure

 

[Zakath]

Originally posted by Nineveh

I didn't claim the court was acting outside it's bounds. Your point?

I claimed that Congress was interfering in what was essentially a states rights issue. It's a Federalism vs. statism issue.

The feet of my God is run through with holes where humans nailed Him to a cross.

Yes, tortured to death at the alleged insistence of his "loving" father. I'm familiar with the story. It's getting close to the time of year when many of you Christians celebrate the divinely ordained butchery.

We have a track record for being cruel to each other.

And your deity has a track record for either ignoring it or even condoning it.

When did you start thinking Benny Hinn was telling the truth about miracle healing? Was it before or after you left tending His flock?

Slipping into ad hominem and red herring arguments already, eh? :chuckle:

Millions of Christians who wouldn't give Hinn the time of day believe that their deity heals humans... Isuppose you do not believe it is possible for your deity to heal Terry Schaivo?

You mean it wouldn't be just as easy for michael to let someone help her eat?

Well, there is that pesky free will thing... you do recall how she got there in the first place, SHE HAS AN EATING DISORDER! She starved herself into a metabolic imbalance which triggered cardiac arrest and the accompanying anoxia caused the brain damage. It would have be "easy" for him to have let her die when he found her unconscious. But he didn't. If I have the story correct, he called an ambulance.

Michael made a promise to care for his wife. Why is God responsible for his hard evil heart?

Can you say "Pharaoh and Moses"?

 

[aikido7]

ETHICS?
Performing a medical proceedure against a person's will (or that of the patient's legal respresentative) is unethical. And illegal.

Anyone who is responsible for re-inserting a feeding tube is guilty of assault and should be sanctioned.

SANCTITY OF MARRIAGE?
Traditionally, a wife is given away to her husband in the act of marriage. The woman leaves her family and home to become one with her husband.

At that point, her family can have opinions, but no legal say in her life or death anymore.

POLITICS?
A GOP talking points memo recently made public says the Terri Shiavo case is a great poltical opportunity for Bush to garner more support from conservative Christians.

Bush sat in Crawford, Texas after reading a memo that bin Laden was determined to attack America. Bush did nothing. To appeal to his political base, he flies immediately to Washington to sign some hastily put-together legislation in a goullish grandstand.

HIPOCRISY?
As governor, George Bush signed into law a provision that authorized a hospital to deny life support for a young boy because his family was too indigent to pay hospital costs.

FAIRNESS?
If other family members have an ethical dilemma concerning end-of-life issues, do they also have a right for the U.S. Congress to get involved as well?

CONSISTENCY?
The life of the unborn is sacred and apparently so is Terri Shaivo's--such as those lives are. Why not extend that to ALL life--even the lives of soldiers and civillians in Iraq?

CYNICISM?
Is part of Tom Delay's strategy to take the focus off of his own ethical can of worms?

COMMON SENSE
Give me a break! Nearly 80 per cent of Americans agree that they would not want to be kept alive in Shaivo's condition.

 

[Mr. Coffee]

Originally posted by aikido7
A GOP talking points memo recently made public says the Terri Shiavo case is a great poltical opportunity for Bush to garner more support from conservative Christians.

Let's try an analogy. A guy owns a business and he really believes that his product or service benefits others, and that's why he sells it. So it's not all about money--but he has to make money to stay in business. Votes are currency in politics, and that's why politicians watch the polls. It doesn't necessarily mean that they aren't sincere about what they say. Bush has been promoting the Culture of Life for a good while now.

 

[Anne]

Originally posted by Zakath
Hardly. If there was no free will, I couldn't gripe.

Now that would be HEAVEN, Zakath not griping about something.:chuckle:

 

[BChristianK]

Originally posted by aikido7

My response:

ETHICS?
Starving someone to death is wrong. You can't do it to a dog without incurring civil liability. And idly standing by while someone is starved to death is deplorable. Supporting it evil.

SANCTITY OF MARRIAGE?
Traditionally, a husband doesn't abandon his wife in her time of need, start shagging some other bimbo and then fight tooth and nail to ensure that his wife be starved to death.


POLITICS?
Anyone who thinks that starving a person to death is good politics is an idiot.

Bush sat in Crawford, Texas after reading a memo that bin Laden was determined to attack America. Bush did nothing. To appeal to his political base, he flies immediately to Washington to sign some hastily put-together legislation in a goullish grandstand.

Apparantly, the left can't get their seething eyes off of Bush long enough to realize that a person is starving to death.


HIPOCRISY?
You'll start protesting the minute a person sticks a pair of BVD's on the head of a terrorist and deprive them of sleep, calling it torture, but don't consider the intentional deprivation of food and water from an innocent woman anything to be concerned about?


Now that's hypocrisy.


FAIRNESS?
I think Michael Shaivo should be starved and dehydrated to death right along side his wife, I think that's fair.

CONSISTENCY?
See hypocrisy above...

CYNICISM?
Judge Greer is evil. Oh wait, that's not Cynicism, its realism.

COMMON SENSE
Give me a break! 100% of the population in America would rather not be executed by court order and especially not through starvation and dehydration.

 

[Nineveh]

Originally posted by Zakath

I claimed that Congress was interfering in what was essentially a states rights issue. It's a Federalism vs. statism issue.

Apparently they can do what they did.

Yes, tortured to death at the alleged insistence of his "loving" father. I'm familiar with the story. It's getting close to the time of year when many of you Christians celebrate the divinely ordained butchery.

Funny, I don't recall the Father being there nailing Him to a cross. I don't think the Father was in the crowd chanting "Crucify Him!". That was us.

And your deity has a track record for either ignoring it or even condoning it.

Ignoring or condoning humans being human...

Sounds like God just can't win with you can He?

Slipping into ad hominem and red herring arguments already, eh? :chuckle:

You are the one claiming God should do a miracle... that sounds like Benny Hinn. So when did you start believing Benny Hinn?

Millions of Christians who wouldn't give Hinn the time of day believe that their deity heals humans... Isuppose you do not believe it is possible for your deity to heal Terry Schaivo?

He has the Power. But He didn't make the promise He would. Besides, Michael is the one holding Terri's life in his hands, and he wants her to die.

Well, there is that pesky free will thing... you do recall how she got there in the first place, SHE HAS AN EATING DISORDER! She starved herself into a metabolic imbalance which triggered cardiac arrest and the accompanying anoxia caused the brain damage. It would have be "easy" for him to have let her die when he found her unconscious. But he didn't. If I have the story correct, he called an ambulance.

After he was told to by her dad, who he called first. But anyway, why is it God's fault michael is trying to starve her to death?

Can you say "Pharaoh and Moses"?

Do we really have to go over who hardened Pharaoh's heart again.

Isn't any one ever responsible for anything Zakath?

 

[Art Deco]

Originally posted by granite1010 In any event, using abortion as a slippery-slope argument comparing us to the Nazis misses an important point: when it came to everyone but the Jews, the Nazis were intensely pro-life.

:mock:Nazis were intensley pro-life. Please, that dog won't hunt...:nono:.. Check post #97 for details 1 through 7.:think:

 

[Zakath]

Originally posted by Nineveh

Apparently they can do what they did.

Yup. Ever since the 1860's... and, in this case, particularly easily when the President's brother is governor of the state in question.

Funny, I don't recall the Father being there nailing Him to a cross.

Oh, so you don't believe that the death by torture of Jesus of Nazareth was necessary to fulfill some requirement of your deity?

I don't think the Father was in the crowd chanting "Crucify Him!". That was us.

Not me. I wasn't born yet.

Ignoring or condoning humans being human...

Sounds like God just can't win with you can He?

But didn't he "make" humans that way????

You are the one claiming God should do a miracle... that sounds like Benny Hinn.

Or Pat Robertson, or Oral Roberts, or any one of tens of thousands of neo-pentecostals across America. It has nothing to do with Reverend Hinn and his shennanigans.

He has the Power.

So you say, but it's a very weak argument when such power is never demonstrated except "long, long ago, in a land far, far away."

But He didn't make the promise He would.

Never claimed he did. I don't even believe "he" really exists, as his lack of intervention in cases that his followers assure me that he's vitally interested in, seems to support.

Besides, Michael is the one holding Terri's life in his hands, and he wants her to die.

Oddly enough I thought your deity holds all life in his hands.:think:

After he was told to by her dad, who he called first. But anyway, why is it God's fault michael is trying to starve her to death?

Perhaps for the same reason your Bible claims that YHWH caused Pharaoh to act in a certain fashion...

Isn't any one ever responsible for anything Zakath?

Isn't your deity ever responsible for anything, Nineveh? Or do you actually believe that he's just an "absentee landlord"?

It appears that I believe, unlike you, that everyone, including deities, are responsible for things over which they have control...

 

[aikido7]

This is life. And death is a part of life.

If you don't work with the sick and dying--or have not met death face-to-face on ITS own terms and not your own--it is nearly impossible to see your way clear on this brouhaha.

Too much of America has been captured by baby souls who are using other human beings to frantically work out their own issues.

 

[Granite]

Originally posted by Art Deco

:mock:Nazis were intensley pro-life. Please, that dog won't hunt...:nono:.. Check post #97 for details 1 through 7.:think:

Art, I said that with the exceptions of Jews (and undesirable races), the Nazis were...and, demonstrably, that's true. Germans were encouraged to raise big, sturdy, Aryan broods. The Hitler Youth and Hitler Maidens got into trouble regularly with conceiving children out of wedlock; this was tolerated because the infants were, after all, good German babies.

 

[Poly]

Originally posted by aikido7

--or have not met death face-to-face on ITS own terms and not your own--

"It's own terms" is the issue. Schiavo seems to think it should be on his own terms.

 

[aikido7]

Schiavo seems to think it should be on his own terms.

So he's either trying to carry out his wife's request or he is lying. In hospitals and in hospice care, people do the former every day.

A flower closes up and wilts--even after it has been watered....
Imagine trying to straigten out those petals again and press them out flat again. And again. And again.

 

[Poly]

Originally posted by aikido7

So he's either trying to carry out his wife's request or he is lying. In hospitals and in hospice care, people do the former every day.

Well, there you have it folks. People do the former every day. That proves Schiavo's telling the truth. :freak:

 

[Nineveh]

Day 5

 

[Zakath]

Originally posted by Anne

Now that would be HEAVEN, Zakath not griping about something.:chuckle:

But if I stopped, who would Nineveh and Deco have to argue with?