Pagan gobbledygook!
Meaningless nonsense that is completely absent from the Bible.
Resting in Him,
Clete
Absolute Divine Immutability: Does Anyone Really Believe It?
- Thread starter Clete
- Start date
Meaningless nonsense that is completely absent from the Bible.
Resting in Him,
Clete
How about reading the thread! Maybe you'll learn something, like the gospel!
What do you make of the following:
Malachi 3:6
I the LORD do not change.
Psalm 102:27
But you remain the same, and your years will never end.
Hebrews 13:8
Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.
James 1:17
...the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows.
I the LORD do not change.
Psalm 102:27
But you remain the same, and your years will never end.
Hebrews 13:8
Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.
James 1:17
...the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows.
Did you read the thread? They all mean what they say but you have to read your doctrine into them to get them to say that God cannot change at all in any way whatsoever.
What do you make of the gospel?
John 1:14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us.
Resting in Him,
Clete
Malachi 3:6
I the LORD do not change.
Psalm 102:27
But you remain the same, and your years will never end.
Hebrews 13:8
Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.
James 1:17
...the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows.
I the LORD do not change.
Psalm 102:27
But you remain the same, and your years will never end.
Hebrews 13:8
Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.
James 1:17
...the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows.
What do they say?
That the Divine nature is essentially immutable, or incapable of any internal change, is an obvious corollary from Divine infinity. Changeableness implies the capacity for increase or diminution of perfection, that is, it implies finiteness and imperfection. But God is infinitely perfect and is necessarily what He is. It is true that some attributes by which certain aspects of Divine perfection are described are hypothetical or relative, in the sense that they presuppose the contingent fact of creation: omnipresence, for example, presupposes the actual existence of spatial beings. But it is obvious that the mutability implied in this belongs to creatures, and not to the Creator; and it is a strange confusion of thought that has led some modern Theists — even professing Christians — to maintain that such attributes can be laid aside by God, and that the Logos in becoming incarnate actually did lay them aside, or at least ceased from their active exercise. But as creation itself did not affect the immutability of God, so neither did the incarnation of a Divine Person; whatever change was involved in either case took place solely in the created nature.
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/06612a.htm#IIC
popsthebuilder
New member
God created absolutely everything that we know of. He literally has, and has always had the power to do whatever he deemed. All is and has always been possible through God. Everything is predestined through God. All of that supports imutabiliy, or lack of change. Times change, circumstances change, needs change, people change. God does not.
I love it when evolutionists defeat their own arguments.
OK so far.
Please flesh that out. Sounds flowery and pseudo-philosophical to me, what does that mean? "Unchangeable because infinite"? I need a diagram for that.
Yes change suggests possibility, so what? It does not require "improvement" if that is what you are throwing at the wall here.
Why? And Why is it a problem? You are throwing terms at the wall. It would be a lot more impressive if you did some explaining.
Again, why? For instance, can a thing be perfect moment to moment? A perfect regulator/governor changes with the flow perfectly.
I'm not convinced. I have no idea why anyone would be. And... why do you need Him to be "absolutely simple?" I think it is because you can't trust "God" unless he is a stone.
"When..." Was God acting outside Himself before and after creation or was it during the creation? If these three time frames I described are not all exactly the same, you lose immutability. Welcome to open theism.
Wow, you saved the best for last, that is some serious code. Unfortunately you used the word "changeable", and if God decrees all, that word in any sense or context is a no-no.
Asked and answered.
Your turn.
Answer my question directly and we can continue. Otherwise, I'll simply stop reading your posts. I'm not interested in wasting my time with you.
Saying it doesn't make it so.
Want to give answering my list of questions a go?
- Do you consider the incarnation a change, if not in substance, at least in form?
- Has God always been a man?
- Was God ever a man?
- Is God still a man today?
- Did God really die on the cross?
- Does Jesus have a glorified physical body today?
- Has He ever had one?
- Has He always had one?
Again, feel free to answer each individually or, since the answers are obvious, simply explain how the doctrine of immutability (i.e. God CANNOT change in ANY WAY whatsoever) compatible with the gospel?
Resting in Him,
Clete
popsthebuilder
New member
Perhaps you missed something. I already answered all of your questions. God is Immutable and without change. Literally anything is possible for God. Who are you to question God, and attempt to confuse the rightly guided. If you are confused; fine, but don't repeatedly attempt to confuse others. What don't you understand about miraculous? Perhaps you could veiw the hypothesis of quantization for some help. Jesus of Nazareth was preordained by God he was of God, yet was man and not technically God until he returned to God upon his reserectuon. He stated over and over that he was subsidiary to God. There is a second coming of Crist as is prophesied, however, Crist is of God and again not equivilant to God because of the flesh. Hope that helps, your attempted confusion is really not welcome. As if I hadn't seen your rediculous questions all ready. Some people are here for guidance, what you are doing is wrong. Thanks. I wish you the best.
He doesn't have a clue what he is talking about, but he has a lot of links.
Perhaps I should have posted this thread in the Exclusively Christian forum. Thanks for wasting my time.
:wave2:
popsthebuilder
New member
What is that supposed to mean. You waste your own time. No one else does it for you.
In the article linked to above, the author admits his theology makes no sense and believes it anyway. VERY typical Calvinist/Augustinian stuff.
“We cannot fully explain it, but based on Scripture, we know that Jesus Christ was both human and divine. We are bound to affirm what Scripture affirms even if we must admit that aspects of the Incarnation are a wonderful mystery. Mysterious or not, we avow what God has revealed to us concerning this."
When you're being irrational, you don't need to make sense.
What the don't realize (or if they do they don't care) is that such a stance throws out the baby with the bath water. They apply this "mystery" trump card at ANYTHING that can't be made sense of. And what's more, they almost always pull this trump card out of one side of their mouth while out of the other side they disparage "false teachers" (as was done in the first sentence of the article as well).
Well how in the world are they going to answer the false teacher when he pulls out the exact same "it doesn't have to make sense" trump card in defense of their doctrine? HOW?!!
They aren't going to answer, that's how. They can't answer. They're only possible plea is to simply barricade their minds to any voice other than their own (which they will call God's voice by the way).
There is simply no convincing a genuine Calvinist that he is wrong. It is literally impossible. Convincing requires a working mind and they have intentionally dismantled all the working parts of their minds with their own bare hands or have allowed others to do it for them and called the doing of it piety and faith.
Resting in Him,
Clete
You deny that Jesus was God. That makes you something other than a Christian and thus whatever you have to say on this topic is worthless.
Further, you deny Jesus' deity in contradiction to yourself! Or do you also deny that God the Son, the 2nd person of the Trinity, existed prior to the incarnation? How in the world does God the Son becoming something other than God (according to you) not constitute a change?
DO NOT ANSWER THAT!!!!
I don't care what you have to say about any of it. You worship the wrong Jesus and look to the death of mere man to pay for your sins. That makes you at best pitiable but certainly not a Christian.
Resting in Him,
Clete