ECT Abraham before he believed

[1Mind1Spirit]

So, I gotta respectable hole in my flag... you've got one in your foot :cheers:

kayaker, Shelanite hunter at large, LOL!

I'm gonna leave things as they lay for now,bro.

Just wanted to let yuh know I still aint in total agreement with all yer ideas, but you gotta enuff truth goin' on I can fight along side yuh against our common foe for a bit. :cheers:

 

[kayaker]

I'm gonna leave things as they lay for now,bro.

Just wanted to let yuh know I still aint in total agreement with all yer ideas, but you gotta enuff truth goin' on I can fight along side yuh against our common foe for a bit. :cheers:

Indeed a kindred spirit, bro! Indeed. I certainly appreciate our disagreements, and do know that I highly respect your constructive criticisms. You've held my feet to the fire probably better than anyone on TOL, and I'm a better blind wild hawg for it! For this I'm grateful.

kayaker... and, where do they sell that blue lotus flower dust, btw?

 

[Nick M]

Several paragraphs by Paul explaining how Abraham had faith, huh? Paul spent the entire chapter 11 of Hebrews talking about faith.

Isn't that kind of hard knowing he did not write it?

 

[rainee]

You're more than welcome, Rainee... Thanks for courageously bringing this to the forefront. In fact, I take the position Tamar was an Israelite Priestess. That's quite an honor to a deserving heroine. Please consider this verse in Leviticus:

Leviticus 21:18 KJV "And the daughter of any priest, if she profane herself by playing the whore, she profaneth her father: she shall be burnt with fire."​

There is no place in scripture, to my knowledge, where anyone played the whore except Tamar back in Genesis 38:24 KJV. Therefore, I conclude whoever wrote Leviticus, Moses presumably, wrote that law with specific reference to Tamar. Consequently, Tamar was an Israelite Priestess. Furthermore, Tamar, being the wife to Judah's sons, would have been the daughter of one of Judah's brothers. I suggest Tamar was the daughter of Levi, since Leviticus 21:18 KJV speaks of the daughter of a priest. Additionally, it would have been through Tamar that the priesthood entered into the lineage of Jesus.

Just food for thought...

kayaker

EDIT PS: More than the second Eve... Mary was the second Tamar, btw.

Hello Kayaker

You have been such a wonderful poster to read since I started reading you lately, I hate to answer a question like this because I am a downer as Town Heretic may could tell you.
But here you go:
Maybe. Tamar might be more than what is shown us. One very important thing will be to the future testimony that The Lord came from Judah and Judah was not the line of priests. Remember?
This is the only possible problem I know of, if it is not then, maybe.
You can tell me not to rain if you would like!

 

[bybee]

Hello Kayaker

You have been such a wonderful poster to read since I started reading you lately, I hate to answer a question like this because I am a downer as Town Heretic may could tell you.
But here you go:
Maybe. Tamar might be more than what is shown us. One very important thing will be to the future testimony that The Lord came from Judah and Judah was not the line of priests. Remember?
This is the only possible problem I know of, if it is not then, maybe.
You can tell me not to rain if you would like!

Tamar had the gall to take things into her own hands to solve a problem that the big fat cats with all of the power were not going to solve! Oh how men love to label an intelligent woman as "whore".
It would appear that God was okay with her solution?

 

[Interplanner]

Did God do things with Israel like telling them no hanky panky with those Canaanites in Deuteronomy 7:1, 2, 3? You've made it perfectly clear David was among the "colorful characters" in Jesus' ancestry. Why did God choose for Jesus to be a descendant of Judah and his daughter-in-law Tamar, instead of Judah and his legal Canaanite wife? Weren't the Israelites just as bad as the Canaanites & Co. as you allude to?

You're fire walking again... Why did God love the Israelites, and not the Canaanites & Co.? Why did God DO THINGS for the Israelites, and not the Canaanites & Co. BEFORE Romans 5 and the first advent? Weren't the Israelites, like David in particular, a pretty wicked bunch, too?



Enjoy circumventing the truth about those circumcised, anti-Semite, non-Israelite (John 8:33 KJV, Romans 9:6, 7, 8), Shelanite non-Jews (Revelation 2:9, 3:9) who plotted Jesus' crucifixion (John 8:28, 37), a true SEMITE descendant of Judah and Tamar. A blind wild hawg comes along, rooting around for acorns, and roots up a can of worms you and your cohorts just can't put a lid on...

So, you see, you are one of these people here who can't see an agreement because you are busy looking for conflict. Yes the two were both wicked. However, God had declared that the iniquity of the Amorites was not complete and told Abraham that it would be 400 years before he would dispossess them.

I would say more than half your problem is you want to use catchy expressions like 'you're fire walking' and I don't know your ordinary meaning, so I don't know what you are saying. I don't know what an anti-semite is doing in Israel or Judea in the 4th decade of the 1st century, but you do. Or else you have your own private meaning, which is my hunch.

As I said before, God did not love them for intrinsic value but to accomplish his eventual
mission, the mission of Christ, which swallows up all the naggling you do as insignificant. It never matters in the message preached to the nations, like the sample of Acts 13, does it?

Interpret the OT with the NT.

 

[Cross Reference]

Kayaker, you are killing me.
The line of The Lord was to have Godly Women...
Righteous Ones, or should I say Just? For the Just shall live by faith, as it was written.
You can't go around saying things when He was/ is trying to show Israel what real godly righteousness looked like. Ok?

Was Rahab the whore, a Godly woman?

 

[Cross Reference]

Well thanks, CR! I think you do a really fine job with your writing, btw... You get your point across whether or not we agree, which is occasional, respectfully. But, I do love shaking the bushes, rooting around for them acorns. Those floggers like Interplanner, who take John 8:34 KJV out of context, have no limits on who they won't accuse, even Abraham being Persian and not previously believing in the God of the Hebrews. Rather remarkable phenomenon, an interesting profile, and not particularly uncommon... including my biological brother, btw!

kayaker

Thank you for that kind reply, Bro. Indeed, anti-christ written all over his 'tommyrot'.

Get a timeline chart from Adam to Abraham [use the dates given in Genesis] to see that he could have known Shem. Gotta remember that everything before the law was by word of mouth and was a serious matter in correctly remembering if anyone was to know anything about their past. That might be why "out of the mouth of 2 or 3 witnesses let everything be confirmed", came into play. :chew:

 

[Interplanner]

Thank you for that kind reply, Bro. Indeed, anti-christ written all over his 'tommyrot'.

Get a timeline chart from Adam to Abraham [use the dates given in Genesis] to see that he could have known Shem. Gotta remember that everything before the law was by word of mouth and was a serious matter in correctly remembering if anyone was to know anything about their past. That might be why "out of the mouth of 2 or 3 witnesses let everything be confirmed", came into play. :chew:

Could you two stop the inside, inbred accusation of flogging and be professional enough for just a moment to use ordinary language?

What is out of context of Jn 8 when sin is the slavery Jesus mentioned, and a son has a place in the family forever? The problem for those people about their descendency, as anyone can see from 42+ is that their father is the devil and Jesus would like to make them free and to be sons.

Any thing else you have been saying about the passage is evil.

 

[rainee]

Was Rahab the whore, a Godly woman?

Did she believe The Lord God's witnesses?
Dis she see to having everyone under her roof SAVED?

If you know these to be yes and I bet you do, then how how how can you ask, CR?

In two thousand years we should know what true righteousness really is in the eyes of The Lord. And I hope you know that, sir?

 

[rainee]

Tamar had the gall to take things into her own hands to solve a problem that the big fat cats with all of the power were not going to solve! Oh how men love to label an intelligent woman as "whore".
It would appear that God was okay with her solution?

Yes ma'am, Bybee.
She went back to live with her dad as she was told to do and then when she saw Judah was disobedient to God because he was afraid, she did something wild and crazy - though really actually quite brave and sensible -- if you are living way way by faith.

You know, woman to woman I tell you I recognize all the examples of remarkable faith in God with more than a touch of fear probably because I personally don't invest in living by faith every day like I should, it's only when the chips are down or I'm afraid that I know I need to because I need Him.
Can't imagine being Tamar or Rahab..

 

[Cross Reference]

Did she believe The Lord God's witnesses?
Dis she see to having everyone under her roof SAVED?

If you know these to be yes and I bet you do, then how how how can you ask, CR?

In two thousand years we should know what true righteousness really is in the eyes of The Lord. And I hope you know that, sir?

Quit with the condescending, ok?

Beforehand, was she righteous/godly, without faith? How did she attain to faith to perform her works of righteousness? What persuaded her and after she was persuaded did she repent of her whoredoms? Do you know?

 

[Nick M]

Ole Moses was kinda like Interplanner.

He wants two Christs like when Moses struck the rock twice.

Lol, who knows, by golly our local Shelanite hunter just mighta found hisself one!!!

My point was actually how things were quite different after circumcision. And people get lost not paying attention to details. Even when Paul and James spell it out.

 

[Danoh]

Quit with the condescending, ok?

Beforehand, was she righteous/godly, without faith? How did she attain to faith to perform her works of righteousness? What persuaded her and after she was persuaded did she repent of her whoredoms? Do you know?

Lol - you, of all people, requesting someone "Quit with the condescending" - now that is rich.

 

[Cross Reference]

Lol - you, of all people, requesting someone "Quit with the condescending" - now that is rich.

Yeah, I know, but that is my first exchange with her <I think>.

OMT. Let me know when, without cause, I am, ok?

 

[Interplanner]

Could you two stop the inside, inbred accusation of flogging and be professional enough for just a moment to use ordinary language?

What is out of context of Jn 8 when sin is the slavery Jesus mentioned, and a son has a place in the family forever? The problem for those people about their descendency, as anyone can see from 42+ is that their father is the devil and Jesus would like to make them free and to be sons.

Any thing else you have been saying about the passage is evil.

CR, could you and your pal kayaker give an honest answer here?

[I didn't realize the quote thing wouldn't requote your original]

 

[Cross Reference]

CR, could you and your pal kayaker give an honest answer here?

[I didn't realize the quote thing wouldn't requote your original]

We think we did and understand your problem handling it. Sorry.

 

[Interplanner]

You think you have "answered" flogging Jn 8:34?

You think you have "answered" why all the geneaological crap is talked about when Christ is talking about sin and unbelief and Satan as father of them and of lies?

So in 40 years of reading and studying broadly, when I've never heard anyone even close to what you are saying, you two on the i.net think you have stopped the world about one verse or with one verse? Fools.

 

[Tambora]

Tamar, being the wife to Judah's sons, would have been the daughter of one of Judah's brothers

Here, you just start to speculate and add things to scripture that are not there.
Scripture does not tell us the parentage of Tamar, the mother of Pharez and Zerah.

And because of this made-up assumption of yours, you keep building upon the assumption with more assumption.

Long story short, your assumption has no solid foundation.
And as scripture says, if you don't start out building on a solid foundation, you might as well be building on sinking sand.

 

[Interplanner]

Well put, Tambora.