Not to those who refuse to work.
A question for libs
- Thread starter Jefferson
- Start date
Not to those who refuse to work.
I understand that but how do we discern between the, perhaps millions, who won't work aside from those who can't work for various reasons?
Are you lumping these beings under a single animus?
The verse says, "For you have the poor with you always, and whenever you wish you may do them good..."
It does not say, "...whenever the state commands, you must do them good or pay a fine, be imprisoned or both."
This isn't exactly correct. Provisions for the poor was a requirement under the law of Moses.
Yes. A requirement- not just voluntary charity.
The semantic nuance you've noted illustrates your freewill regarding the destitute and bespeaks of your character. What may it reveal?
He clearly doesn't know his Bible very well. He quotes the verse, "For you have the poor with you always, and whenever you wish you may do them good..." not realizing that Jesus is referring to actions that go beyond what the law of Moses requires in providing for the needs of the poor.
ok doser
lifeguard at the cement pond
Was the year of Jubilee a requirement?
ok doser
lifeguard at the cement pond
A requirement regulated and administered by whom?
Incorrect.
Did you even bother to pay attention to what I highlighted in what Jesus said? Maybe if I underline the key words there, you'll see it...
Try again:
[JESUS]For you have the poor with you always, and whenever you wish you may do them good; but Me you do not have always.[/JESUS] - Mark 14:7 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...7&version=NKJV
Again, what did Paul say?
For even when we were with you, we commanded you this: If anyone will not work, neither shall he eat.For we hear that there are some who walk among you in a disorderly manner, not working at all, but are busybodies.Now those who are such we command and exhort through our Lord Jesus Christ that they work in quietness and eat their own bread. - 2 Thessalonians 3:10-12 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...2&version=NKJV
The Bible itself legislates several laws which are in effect a sort of tax for the benefit of the poor. Among these are leket, shikhḥah, and pe'ah as well as the special tithe for the poor (see ma'aser ). The institution of the sabbatical year (see Sabbatical Year and Jubilee) was in order "that the poor of the people may eat" (Ex. 23: 11) as well as to cancel debts about which the warning was given: "If there be among you a needy man, one of your brethren, within thy gates, in thy land which the Lord thy God giveth thee, thou shalt not harden thy heart nor shut thy hand from thy needy brother; but thou shalt surely open thy hand unto him and shalt surely lend him sufficient for his need in that which he wanteth. Beware that there be not a base thought in thy heart, saying 'The seventh year, the year of release, is at hand'; and thine eye be evil against thy needy brother and thou give him nought; and he say unto the Lord against thee and it be sin in thee. Thou shalt surely give him, and thy heart shall not be grieved when thou givest unto him; because that for this thing the Lord thy God will bless thee in all thy work…." (Deut. 15:7–10).
The Pentateuch also insists that the needy be remembered when the festivals are celebrated, e.g., "And thou shalt rejoice before the Lord thy God, thou, and thy son, and thy daughter, and thy man-servant, and thy maid-servant, and the Levite that is within thy gates, and the stranger, and the fatherless and the widow that are in the midst of thee" (16:11, 14). The Bible expects Israel to be aware of the needs of the poor and the stranger (who is considered to be in an inferior economic position) because Israel itself had experienced this situation in Egypt: "Love ye therefore the stranger; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt" (10:19) and promises "for this thing the Lord thy God will bless thee in all thy work and in all that thou puttest thy hand unto" (15:10).
Both the prophets Isaiah and Ezekiel considered charity as an indispensable requirement for a life of piety. Indeed, Isaiah proclaims that the "acceptable day to the Lord" is not the fast which only consists of afflicting the soul and wearing sackcloth and ashes, but rather the day on which bread is dealt to the hungry, the poor that are cast out are brought into the house, and the naked clothed (Is. 58:5–7); Ezekiel (16:49) attributes the destruction of Sodom to its lack of charity, "neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy."
Read more at the source: https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/charity-throughout-jewish-history
Why do I not believe you?
Simple. Next time you see someone standing on the street corner with a sign saying they're "homeless" or anything like that, ask them if they would be willing to work for you, be it chopping logs, digging a hole and filling it in again and repeating, or other mundane task, with the payment being they have a place to live and food to eat, until they could find a job.
The ones who refuse are the ones who won't work.
For the ones who say they can't do those things because of medical reasons, first see if they have any ideas as to what they CAN do, and ask them why they don't just ask their family or friends or even former coworkers to help them.
Chances are they've burned those bridges through their own actions and they aren't willing to humble themselves and apologize for their actions towards others.
Everyone can work. It's just a matter of how much effort they're willing to put into doing something.
Which is why Paul said "if anyone WILL not work," not "cannot."
They are typically the same people.
Last I checked, Christians are not under the law, but under grace.
And Paul tells Christians:
For even when we were with you, we commanded you this: If anyone will not work, neither shall he eat.For we hear that there are some who walk among you in a disorderly manner, not working at all, but are busybodies.Now those who are such we command and exhort through our Lord Jesus Christ that they work in quietness and eat their own bread. - 2 Thessalonians 3:10-12 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2Thessalonians3:10-12&version=NKJV
Again, as I said in the post directly above this one:
Christians are NOT UNDER THE LAW.
The people of Sodom were not under the law either, but Ezekiel (16:49) attributes the destruction of Sodom in part to its lack of charity, "neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy."
Are you actually comparing Christians who follow what Christ and Paul said in the above passages to Sodom?
Shame on you.
“ As I live,” says the Lord God, “neither your sister Sodom nor her daughters have done as you and your daughters have done.Look, this was the iniquity of your sister Sodom: She and her daughter had pride, fullness of food, and abundance of idleness; neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy.And they were haughty and committed abomination before Me; therefore I took them away as I saw fit.[/QUOTE] - Ezekiel 16:48-50 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...0&version=NKJV
Do you see the semicolon?
Why did God take them away?
Because they were haughty and committed abomination before Him.
It wasn't because they didn't help the poor and needy. That was just a side effect of their wickedness.
It's all moot anyways, because, again, Christ said to help when one wishes to, and Paul says don't feed those who aren't willing to work, but to let them eat their own bread.
Woe to those who call evil good, and good evil; Who put darkness for light, and light for darkness; Who put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter! - Isaiah 5:20 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Isaiah5:20&version=NKJV
User Name That's you.
User Name That's you.
The idea of using the New Testament concept of grace as a justification for not caring about the needs of the poor is just...wow.
Straw man.
We do care about the poor, but helping those who refuse to work is counterproductive, because it just enables them to continue in their refusal to work.
Use your brain, UN.
Paul doesn't say, "don't help the poor because you're not under the law, but under grace."
He says we're "not under the law", and he also says "if a man does not work, he shall not eat . . . and those who are such (walking in a disorderly manner, not working at all) should work quietly and eat their own bread.
Of course you do.