A Messianic Jewish Perspective

[HisServant]

Sorry but this is a demonstration of Replacement Theology.

How can you replace something that never existed?

And the fact that you responded the way you did proves you are a racist!

If there is one thing that the bible proves... its just how awful humans can be when they associate with Judaism... and Paul agrees with me entirely.

 

[daqq]

I believe it is you that is taking it out of context. There is a reason why that scripture encompasses all 'Isreal'.. even though Isreal did not exist as the nation god created at the time.

You kind of have the same intellectual challenge as the Roman Catholics do.... how can they call themselves the 'church' when they unilaterally divorced themselves from their eastern orthodox brethren.

In this case you have the house of Judah laying claim to the nation of Israel... in spite it being composed of a minority of the tribes that were given the promise.

At the end of the day, you come to the realization that that Paul is talking about has nothing to do with the nation of ethnic people who identified with Israel and the House of Judah.

Again you speak of ethnicity showing that it is you yourself who is caught up in the racism trap while not understanding what you are talking about. You are only showing that you have essentially made up your own religion which boasts itself against the Father and His Word.

Jeremiah 33:14-26 KJVRN
33:14 Behold, the days come, saith YHWH, that I will perform that good thing which I have promised unto the house of Israel and to the house of Judah.
33:15 In those days, and at that time, will I cause the Branch of righteousness to grow up unto David; and he shall execute judgment and righteousness in the land.
33:16 In those days shall Judah be saved, and Jerusalem shall dwell safely: and this is the name wherewith she shall be called, YHWH our righteousness.
33:17 For thus saith YHWH; David shall never want a man to sit upon the throne of the house of Israel;
33:18 Neither shall the priests the Levites want a man before me to offer burnt offerings, and to kindle meat offerings, and to do sacrifice continually.
33:19 And the word of YHWH came unto Jeremiah, saying,
33:20 Thus saith YHWH; If ye can break my covenant of the day, and my covenant of the night, and that there should not be day and night in their season;
33:21 Then may also my covenant be broken with David my servant, that he should not have a son to reign upon his throne; and with the Levites the priests, my ministers.
33:22 As the host of heaven cannot be numbered, neither the sand of the sea measured: so will I multiply the seed of David my servant, and the Levites that minister unto me.
33:23 Moreover the word of YHWH came to Jeremiah, saying,
33:24 Considerest thou not what this people have spoken, saying, The two families which YHWH hath chosen, he hath even cast them off? thus they have despised my people, that they should be no more a nation before them.
33:25 Thus saith YHWH; If my covenant be not with day and night, and if I have not appointed the ordinances of heaven and earth;
33:26 Then will I cast away the seed of Jacob, and David my servant, so that I will not take any of his seed to be rulers over the seed of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob: for I will cause their captivity to return, and have mercy on them.

Even Paul answers this for you but you apparently do not hear him.
These days have already come and they continue on with or without you.

 

[Ben Masada]

Do you have a verse that states Israel was anointed by God?

Not only one but a few; go ahead, read and enjoy them:

Psalm 132:10 - "For the sake of your servant David, do not reject your anointed one!" This is a reference to Judah the anointed one of the Lord who was preserved by the Lord as a Lamp in Jerusalem forever for the sake of David.(I Kings 11:36)

Habakkuk 3:13 - "The Lord has come forth to deliver His People; to deliver His Anointed One." Who could have anointed the People of Israel if not HaShem?

Ezekiel 16:7-9 - "...then I entered into a covenant with you (Israel) by oath, declares the Lord God and you became Mine." "...then I anointed you with oil."

Psalm 28:8,9 - The Lord is "their" strength; a stronghold for the deliverance of His anointed aka His very own People.

 

[patrick jane]

Not only one but a few; go ahead, read and enjoy them:

Psalm 132:10 - "For the sake of your servant David, do not reject your anointed one!" This is a reference to Judah the anointed one of the Lord who was preserved by the Lord as a Lamp in Jerusalem forever for the sake of David.(I Kings 11:36)

Habakkuk 3:13 - "The Lord has come forth to deliver His People; to deliver His Anointed One." Who could have anointed the People of Israel if not HaShem?

Ezekiel 16:7-9 - "...then I entered into a covenant with you (Israel) by oath, declares the Lord God and you became Mine." "...then I anointed you with oil."

Psalm 28:8,9 - The Lord is "their" strength; a stronghold for the deliverance of His anointed aka His very own People.

You are not part of that anointing -

 

[Ben Masada]

How can you replace something that never existed?

And the fact that you responded the way you did proves you are a racist!

If there is one thing that the bible proves... its just how awful humans can be when they associate with Judaism... and Paul agrees with me entirely.

BTW, as you remind me of racism, that's exactly what Replacement Theology is all about; anti-Jewish racism. If there was any thing racist in my nature, I would not take the gospel of salvation unto the Gentiles. Rather Jesus, if we are to believe Matthew 10:5,6, forbade his own disciples to take the gospel of salvation unto the Gentiles. Why? Have you ever asked yourself this question? I wonder! Of course! Paul had to agree with you because he was a prime example of anti-Jewish racism. And what you say about being awful to associate with Judaism, why do you use Jesus to promote your own faith when his Faith was Judaism? You are contradicting your own self with that statement if I am to remind you.

 

[Ben Masada]

You are not part of that anointing -

Whatever you say! If you feel happy about that, I made my day.

 

[HisServant]

BTW, as you remind me of racism, that's exactly what Replacement Theology is all about; anti-Jewish racism. If there was any thing racist in my nature, I would not take the gospel of salvation unto the Gentiles. Rather Jesus, if we are to believe Matthew 10:5,6, forbade his own disciples to take the gospel of salvation unto the Gentiles. Why? Have you ever asked yourself this question? I wonder! Of course! Paul had to agree with you because he was a prime example of anti-Jewish racism. And what you say about being awful to associate with Judaism, why do you use Jesus to promote your own faith when his Faith was Judaism? You are contradicting your own self with that statement if I am to remind you.

FYI, Why would Jesus need a faith? The fact that you made that statement boggles my mind... God incarnate walking this earth needed a system of beliefs? Seriously?

Who is to say I am anti-Jewish?

All I do is deny anything that would support the Jews still being in some sort of favored status with God..... you have become irrelevant and no different from any other human that walks this planet.

And yes, I know why Jesus forbade his disciples from preaching to Gentiles.. and it has nothing to do with what you are spouting. It has to do with the eventuality that you Jews would solicit the Romans to have Jesus killed!


To me the Jews are a world class example of complete and utter failure... you guys had it all, God lived with you, he guided you. Yet at every opportunity you turned your back on him and committed adultery with other gods and nations. It really is sad. In the end, God basically wiped your nation off the face of the earth and destroyed his temple.. which will never be rebuilt!

Paul was given a vision of the above and his heart was heavy because the Jews were so ignorant! He even went so far as wishing he would be cast out for the sake of the Jews! Which is exactly what you should feel!

He de-legitimized any and all land claims in the land of Israel because not a single Jew that walks this earth accurately knows what tribe they are from so they can never settle on their promised piece of land... and since those squatting in Israel now are living in land not promised to them, they are cursed. And God is using the Arab world to make sure they never live in peace.. ever.


But its a great example to me... in how God loved such a wretched and unfaithful people! If he loved you guys, just think how much he loves me?

 

[TweetyBird]

Not only one but a few; go ahead, read and enjoy them:

Psalm 132:10 - "For the sake of your servant David, do not reject your anointed one!" This is a reference to Judah the anointed one of the Lord who was preserved by the Lord as a Lamp in Jerusalem forever for the sake of David.(I Kings 11:36)

David was the anointed one.

Habakkuk 3:13 - "The Lord has come forth to deliver His People; to deliver His Anointed One." Who could have anointed the People of Israel if not HaShem?

The Son of David, the Messiah, as prophesied. God did not anoint an entire people group.

Ezekiel 16:7-9 - "...then I entered into a covenant with you (Israel) by oath, declares the Lord God and you became Mine." "...then I anointed you with oil."

Anointing with oil does not make Israel the "anointed one". Anointing individuals with oil was a common practice not associated with an anointing for a specific purpose/office. The "anointed ones" in the Tanakh were priests, kings and prophets, not an entire people group. An anointing was for leadership.

Psalm 28:8,9 - The Lord is "their" strength; a stronghold for the deliverance of His anointed aka His very own People.

David was referring to himself as the anointed king.

 

[Ben Masada]

FYI, Why would Jesus need a faith? The fact that you made that statement boggles my mind... God incarnate walking this earth needed a system of beliefs? Seriously?

Because Jesus was a loyal Jew to his Faith which was Judaism and not a pagan believer in the incarnation of God.

Who is to say I am anti-Jewish?

Your message. The mouth speaks of what the heart is full.

All I do is deny anything that would support the Jews still being in some sort of favored status with God..... you have become irrelevant and no different from any other human that walks this planet.

Do something better than only talking nonsense. Tear the Tanach out of your Bible and throw it into the fire. The gospel of Paul aka the NT is enough for you. But don't forget to tear the pages that speak about Jesus because he was a Jew, not a Christian.

And yes, I know why Jesus forbade his disciples from preaching to Gentiles.. and it has nothing to do with what you are spouting. It has to do with the eventuality that you Jews would solicit the Romans to have Jesus killed!

That's another speculative nonsense because the apostles of Jesus, especially Peter converted thousands from the Gentiles. There is not a thing more important in the life of a Jew than the Law. Jesus came to confirm that Law down to the letter and now you are saying that the Jews wanted to kill him. How could that ever make sense?

To me the Jews are a world class example of complete and utter failure... you guys had it all, God lived with you, he guided you. Yet at every opportunity you turned your back on him and committed adultery with other gods and nations. It really is sad. In the end, God basically wiped your nation off the face of the earth and destroyed his temple.. which will never be rebuilt!

Now, you are appealing to lies to get through me. Have you ever read "The Essay of Mark Twain about the Jews?" If you want, I can print it here for your eyes only so that you may know what is Jewish failure. Regarding your wish God wiped us out of the earth, I give you Jeremiah 46:28. "Of the other nations the Lord will eventually make an end of them but of Israel He will only chastise us as we deserve." Can you take that?

Paul was given a vision of the above and his heart was heavy because the Jews were so ignorant! He even went so far as wishing he would be cast out for the sake of the Jews! Which is exactly what you should feel!

So the Jews were "so ignorant!" Yes, you do need to read "The Essay of Mark Twain about the Jews." I can't add it here because it will make this post too long but I will post it to you eventually.

He de-legitimized any and all land claims in the land of Israel because not a single Jew that walks this earth accurately knows what tribe they are from so they can never settle on their promised piece of land... and since those squatting in Israel now are living in land not promised to them, they are cursed. And God is using the Arab world to make sure they never live in peace.. ever.

The Lord rather bless those who bless Israel and curse those who curse Israel. Have you read this throughout the Tanach? The Tanach was the only Scriptures Jesus always referred to as the Word of God. He never even dreamed the NT would ever rise.

But its a great example to me... in how God loved such a wretched and unfaithful people! If he loved you guys, just think how much he loves me?

The answer to this last question of yours is in Isaiah 56:1-8 where you are invited to join God's Covenant with His People Israel and get a name better than sons and daughters.

 

[Ben Masada]

David was the anointed one.

The Son of David, the Messiah, as prophesied. God did not anoint an entire people group.

Anointing with oil does not make Israel the "anointed one". Anointing individuals with oil was a common practice not associated with an anointing for a specific purpose/office. The "anointed ones" in the Tanakh were priests, kings and prophets, not an entire people group. An anointing was for leadership.

David was referring to himself as the anointed king.

I got you! Envy is always followed by replacement. How about this one? God anointed Israel as a People to be his only begotten son if you read Exodus 4:22,23. "Israel is My Son; let My Son go that he may serve Me." I bet you can't wait to tell me that, if not David it was Jesus but not Israel. Go ahead, I am ready. Oh! Don't forget Hosea 11:1. "When Israel was a child, from Egypt I called My son." The Hellenist who wrote the gospel attributed to Matthew plagiarized Hosea 11:1 and sent Jesus to Egypt as an act of Replacement Theology of Hosea 11:1. Isn't some thing! But you have to stick with Matthew. If you ask Luke about it, he will tell you that there was no such a thing; not with the Jesus of his gospel.

 

[TweetyBird]

I got you! Envy is always followed by replacement. God anointed Israel as a People to be his only begotten
son if you read Exodus 4:22,23. "Israel is My Son; let My Son go that he may serve Me." I bet you can't wait to tell me that, if not David it was Jesus but not Israel. Go ahead, I am ready. Oh! Don't forget Hosea 11:1. "When Israel was a child, from Egypt I called My son." The Hellenist who wrote the gospel attributed to Matthew plagiarized Hosea 11:1 and sent Jesus to Egypt as an act of Replacement Theology of Hosea 11:1. Isn't some thing! But you have to stick with Matthew. If you ask Luke about it, he will tell you that there was no such a thing; not with the Jesus of his gospel.

Nope, you do not "got me". I do not believe in replacement theology at all, ever, never. I believe the Jews and Gentiles are equal in the eyes of the Lord. There is no text that shows Israel was anointed of God to be the begotten or the Messiah. So what if God said Israel is His son? What does that have to do with her being anointed?

Funny, that - Matthew was Jew, Luke was a Greek

 

[Ben Masada]

Nope, you do not "got me". I do not believe in replacement theology at all, ever, never. I believe the Jews and Gentiles are equal in the eyes of the Lord. There is no text that shows Israel was anointed of God to be the begotten or the Messiah. So what if God said Israel is His son? What does that have to do with her being anointed?

Funny, that - Matthew was Jew, Luke was a Greek

Matthew the apostle of Jesus never wrote a page of that gospel. It was written by a Hellenist former disciple of Paul's and attributed to Matthew for apostolic credibility to the gospel. Read Mat. 9:9 and tell me if he could have ever written that gospel.

 

[Crucible]

Matthew the apostle of Jesus never wrote a page of that gospel. It was written by a Hellenist former disciple of Paul's and attributed to Matthew for apostolic credibility to the gospel. Read Mat. 9:9 and tell me if he could have ever written that gospel.

Matthew was referred to much more commonly as Levi. He didn't like his publican name, and was soon about to be participating in a publican festival- the people whom were anything but believers of God.
He eventually disowned the name 'Matthew'.

 

[patrick jane]

Whatever you say! If you feel happy about that, I made my day.

I looked you up on Ancestry.com - you are not a Jew

 

[beameup]

The inherant racism that exists in Messianic Judaism is a real problem for me. There are no Jews or Greeks in the body of Christ... holding onto some version of Judaism seems to violate that tenet. We are all equal in the body of Christ, there is no preference due to ethnicity or function within the body (clergy and laity are both equal).

There are an ever-increasing number of Jewish Messianic congregations both in Israel and elsewhere. There is a lot of forgotten information that can be enlightening to the Gentile Christian congregations.

 

[TweetyBird]

Matthew the apostle of Jesus never wrote a page of that gospel. It was written by a Hellenist former disciple of Paul's and attributed to Matthew for apostolic credibility to the gospel. Read Mat. 9:9 and tell me if he could have ever written that gospel.

LOL .... :crackup:

 

[Ben Masada]

Matthew was referred to much more commonly as Levi. He didn't like his publican name, and was soon about to be participating in a publican festival- the people whom were anything but believers of God. He eventually disowned the name 'Matthew'.

That's not the point. The text is reporting about Matthew on the third person by giving all the evidences we need that it was written by someone else. The conclusion that the author was a Hellenist is based on the Hellenist doctrine of the Greek demigod reported in Matthew 1:18. A Jew would never write Greek Mythology to explain how Jesus had been born. Only Paul who was a Hellenist from birth, the son of a well-to-do Hellenist couple from the city of Tarsus in the Cilicia.

 

[Crucible]

That's not the point. The text is reporting about Matthew on the third person by someone else, giving all the evidences we need that it was written by someone else.

He didn't want to refer to himself as Matthew, so he wrote in third person. That was simply the old him- you seriously think that the entire church agreed that Matthew wrote the book and straight up overlooked that verse?
I'll take sense over your nonsense

 

[Ben Masada]

I looked you up on Ancestry.com - you are not a Jew

Wasting your time for nothing when there are so much more important things to do as to take advantage of this occasion for instance, by being instructed in God's ways so that you may walk in His path, for those kinds of instructions shall come forth from Zion. (Isaiah 2:3; Micah 4:2)

 

[Ben Masada]

There are an ever-increasing number of Jewish Messianic congregations both in Israel and elsewhere. There is a lot of forgotten information that can be enlightening to the Gentile Christian congregations.

They are not Jewish; they are Christians. A Messianic Jew is the one who understands that Israel is the Messiah. It is called the collective concept of Messiah if you read Prophet Habakkuk 3:13. "The Lord goes forth to save His People; to save His Anointed One." That's what Messiah is the Anointed One of the Lord aka Israel the Son of God. "Israel is My Son," said the Lord. "Let My Son go that he may serve Me." (Exodus 4:22,23)