A CLOSER look at John 1:1!

[theMadThinker]

Next comes the Churches (and their translations) have him speaking E-boincs!

53- Are you greater than our father Abraham, who died? And the prophets died! Who do you claim to be?”
54- Jesus answered, “If I glorify myself, my glory is nothing; it is my Father who glorifies me, of whom you say that He is your God.
55- But you have not known Him; I know Him. If I said, I do not know Him, I should be a liar like you; but I do know Him and I keep his word.
56- Your father Abraham rejoiced that he was to see my day; he saw it and was glad.”
57- The Jews then said to him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have you seen Abraham?”
58- Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am.

First- Jesus was DENYING he was God!
Second- "I am" is ridiculous- for Ex 3 says "I will be" instead of most translations "I am".
Third- The Greek reads "I WAS"- making complete SENSE!

 

[theMadThinker]

Chap 9-

4- We must work the works of Him who sent me, while it is day; night comes, when no one can work.
35- Jesus heard that they had cast him out, and having found him he said, “Do you believe in the Son of man?”
36- He answered, “And who is he, sir, that I may believe in him?”
37- Jesus said to him, “You have seen him, and it is he who speaks to you.”

---

38- He said, “Lord, I believe”; and he worshiped him. -RSV
CJB- “Lord, I trust!” he said, and he kneeled down in front of him.
DLNT- And the one said, “Master, I believe”, and prostrated-himself before Him.
DRA- And he said: I believe, Lord. And falling down, he adored him.
GW- The man bowed in front of Jesus and said, “I believe, Lord.”
GNT- “I believe, Lord!” the man said, and knelt down before Jesus.
MOUNCE- Then the man said, “I believe, Lord,” and he bowed in reverence before him.
NOG- The man bowed in front of Yeshua and said, “I believe, Lord.”
YLT- and he said, `I believe, sir,' and bowed before him.

The verb προσκυνεω (proskuneo) [worship] means to meet, greet, get to know and ultimately fully merge with. It's used 60 times in the New Testament, and the context must show which level of intimacy or familiarity our verb expresses.

It must be emphasized that our verb does not refer to anything specifically religious or even spiritual. Instead it describes the entire spectrum of actions between initially noticing an interesting person in a far foggy distance, and ultimately becoming one with that person. In translations of the New Testament our verb is often translated with "to worship" but even in the New Testament this verb doesn't mean anything religious. It simply expresses the action of advancing toward someone, without specifying at which level of intimacy the process is halted or for what reason it's halted. There's no real English synonym for this awesome Greek verb, but a remnant of the idea exists perhaps in the idiomatic phrasal verb "to make advances."

Proskuneo​

pros-koo-neh'-o
Parts of SpeechVerb

Proskuneo Definition​

1. to kiss the hand to (towards) one, in token of reverence
2. among the Orientals, esp. the Persians, to fall upon the knees and touch the ground with the forehead as an expression of profound reverence
3. in the NT by kneeling or prostration to do homage (to one) or make obeisance, whether in order to express respect or to make supplication
   1. used of homage shown to men and beings of superior rank
      1. to the Jewish high priests
      2. to God
      3. to Christ
      4. to heavenly beings
      5. to demons

 

[theMadThinker]

Chap 10~

11- I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep.
14- I am the good shepherd; I know my own and my own know me,
15- as the Father knows me and I know the Father; and I lay down my life for the sheep.
16- And I have other sheep, that are not of this fold; I must bring them also, and they will heed my voice. So there shall be one flock, one shepherd. 17- For this reason the Father loves me, because I lay down my life, that I may take it again.
18- No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again; this charge I have received from my Father.”

Literally "Commandment".
Now, did Jesus, as God, REMAIN ALIVE, leaving the body as an "immortal soul" and returning after 3 days?
Or did he.....DIE?

And now for a scripture ETERNALLY misapplied by those believing the Trinity!
30- I and the Father are one.
John 17: 11- And now I am no more in the world, but they are in the world, and I am coming to thee. Holy Father, keep them in thy name, which thou hast given me, that they may be one, even as we are one.
The Jews reacted as church-goers do~
33- The Jews answered him, “It is not for a good work that we stone you but for blasphemy; because you, being a man, make yourself God.”
34- Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your law, ‘I said, you are Gods’?
35- If he called them Gods to whom the word of God came (and scripture cannot be broken),
36- do you say of him whom the Father consecrated and sent into the world, ‘You are blaspheming,’ because I said, ‘I am the Son of God’?
37- If I am not doing the works of my Father, then do not believe me;
38- but if I do them, even though you do not believe me, believe the works, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me and I am in the Father.”

Jesus himself denied he was God!

 

[theMadThinker]

Chap 11-

Martha said to Jesus:
27- She said to him, “Yes, Lord; I believe that you are the Christ, the Son of the Trinity, God who is coming into the world.”
OR, Martha said to Jesus:
27 She said to him, “Yes, Lord; I believe that you are the Christ, the son of God, he who is coming into the world.”

38- Then Jesus, deeply moved again, came to the tomb; it was a cave, and a stone lay upon it.
39- Jesus said, “Take away the stone.” Martha, the sister of the dead man, said to him, “Lord, by this time there will be an odor, for he has been dead four days.”
40- Jesus said to her, “Did I not tell you that if you would believe you would see the glory of God?”
41- So they took away the stone. And Jesus lifted up his eyes and said, “Father, I thank thee that thou hast heard me.
42- I knew that thou hearest me always, but I have said this on account of the people standing by, that they may believe that thou didst send me.”
43- When he had said this, he cried with a loud voice, “Laz′arus, come out.”
44- The dead man came out, his hands and feet bound with bandages, and his face wrapped with a cloth. Jesus said to them, “Unbind him, and let him go.”

Jesus NEVER EVER claimed to be God, much less claimed to be part of a "TRINITY"!

 

[theMadThinker]

Chap 12-

12- The next day a great crowd who had come to the feast heard that Jesus was coming to Jerusalem. 13 So they took branches of palm trees and went out to meet him, crying, “Hosanna! Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord [ Greek did not have God's Name], even the King of Israel!”

Even the Jews never thought Jesus part of a 'Trinity'!

26- If any one serves me, he must follow me; and where I am, there shall my servant be also; if any one serves me, the Father will honor him.
28- Father, glorify thy name.” Then a voice came from heaven, “I have glorified it, and I will glorify it again.”
29- The crowd standing by heard it and said that it had thundered. Others said, “An angel has spoken to him.”
30- Jesus answered, “This voice has come for your sake, not for mine.

One or Two Gods did NOT speak from Heaven.

44- And Jesus cried out and said, “He who believes in me, believes not in me but in Him who sent me.
45- And he who sees me sees Him who sent me.
49- For I have not spoken on my own authority; the Father who sent me has Himself given me commandment what to say and what to speak.
50- And I know that his commandment is eternal life. What I say, therefore, I say as the Father has bidden me.”

Who teaches and commands God?

 

[theMadThinker]

Chap 13~

20- Truly, truly, I say to you, he who receives any one whom I send receives me; and he who receives me receives Him who sent me.”
31- When he had gone out, Jesus said, “Now is the Son of man glorified, and in him God is glorified;
32- if God is glorified in him, God will also glorify Him in himself, and glorify him at once.

Again, Christ is speaking of God separately!

 

[theMadThinker]

Chap 14~

1- “Let not your hearts be troubled; believe in God, believe also in me."
6- Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father, but by me.
8- Philip said to him, “Lord, show us the Father, and we shall be satisfied.”
9- Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long, and yet you do not know me, Philip? He who has seen me has seen the Father; how can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?
10- Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father in me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on my own authority; but the Father who dwells in me does his works.
11- Believe me that I am in the Father and the Father in me; or else believe me for the sake of the works themselves.

Jesus forgot to mention the 'Holy Ghost'?

13- Whatever you ask in my name, I will do it, that the Father may be glorified in the son.
16- And I will pray the Father, and he will give you another Counselor [ Comforter, Helper, Companion, Advocate in other translations ] to be with you for ever,
17- even the spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; you know Him, for he dwells with you, and will be in you.

So here does Jesus mention him?
God has a Name (even though churches HIDE it), the son has a Name...Why not the "Holy Ghost"????
I can't say what's in all of you- but the same spirit of truth is in ME, and it isn't a 'Holy-Ghost-God'.
WHY does Jesus refer to it as "Him"?
Because he knows who be working thru it!

20- In that day you will know that I am in my Father, and you in me, and I in you! [What about the Ghost-God?]
28- You heard me say to you, ‘I go away, and I will come to you.’ If you loved me, you would have rejoiced, because I go to the Father; for the Father is GREATER than I.

Noone is greater than God!

 

[theMadThinker]

Chap 15-

8- By this my Father is glorified, that you bear much fruit, and so prove to be my disciples.
[Not him]
23- He who hates me hates my Father also.
24- Now they have seen and hated both me and my Father.

 

[theMadThinker]

Chapt 16~

3- And they will do this because they have not known the Father, nor me.
This one MIGHT be used point point to the 'Holy-Ghost-God'-

13- When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.
14- He will glorify me, for he will take what is mine and declare it to you.
15- All that the Father has is mine; therefore I said that he will take what is mine and declare it to you.

Puzzling words, whether spirit being or an "it"!
Maybe some of you would share scriptures with bearing!

29- His disciples said, “Ah, now you are speaking plainly, not in any figure!
30- Now we know that you know all things, and need none to question you; by this we believe that you came from God.”

 

[Idolater]

“ Suppose there are many Scriptures which indicate a distinction between the Father and Jesus.

“ Suppose there are many Scriptures which indicate some sort of equality between the Father and Jesus.

“ Only under Trinitarianism are both of these sets of Scriptures unsurprising. ”

 

[theMadThinker]

Chap 17-

1- After Jesus said these things, he looked toward heaven and prayed, “Father, the time has come. Give glory to your Son so that the son can give glory to you.
2- You gave the son power over all people so that the son could give eternal life to all those you gave him.
3- And this is eternal life: that people know you, the only true God, and that they know Jesus Christ, the one you sent.
4- Having finished the work you gave me to do, I brought you glory on earth.
5- And now, Father, give me glory with you; give me the glory I had with you before the world was made.
7- Now they know that everything you gave me comes from you.
8- I gave them the teachings you gave me, and they accepted them. They knew that I truly came from you, and they believed that you sent me.
9- I am praying for them. I am not praying for people in the world but for those you gave me, because they are yours.
11- I am coming to you; I will not stay in the world any longer. But they are still in the world. Holy Father, keep them safe by the power of your name, the name you gave me, so that they will be one, just as you and I are one.

[Wonder what Name God had?]

12- While I was with them, I kept them safe by the power of your name, the name you gave me. I protected them, and only one of them, the one worthy of destruction, was lost so that the Scripture would come true.
21- Father, I pray that they can be one. As you are in me and I am in you, I pray that they can also be one in us. Then the world will believe that you sent me.
22- I have given these people the glory that you gave me so that they can be one, just as you and I are one.
23- I will be in them and you will be in me so that they will be completely one. Then the world will know that you sent me and that you loved them just as much as you loved me.
24- “Father, I want these people that you gave me to be with me where I am. I want them to see my glory, which you gave me because you loved me before the world was made.
25- Father, you are the One who is good. The world does not know you, but I know you, and these people know you sent me.
26- I made known to them your name, and I will make it known, that the love with which thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them.”

 

[theMadThinker]

Chapter 20-

Jesus own words!
17- Jesus said to her, “Do not hold me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to my brethren and say to them, I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.”

19- Jesus came and stood among them and said to them, “Peace be with you.”
20- When he had said this, he showed them his hands and his side. Then the disciples were glad when they saw the Lord.
21- Jesus said to them again, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I send you.”
22- And when he had said this, he breathed [ "spirit" means "breath"] on them, and said to them, “Receive the holy spirit.
23- If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.”
28- Thomas answered him, “My Lord and my God!”

Now,Trinnies grasp a straws, using THIS to 'prove' Jesus is God.
You have seen how Jesus DENYED being God! Do you say he's now ADMITTING that he is?
AND, did Thomas mean that???
No, Jesus nor Thomas changed their story.

Thomas was exclaiming that it WAS his savior, and that God resurrected him!

 

[theMadThinker]

That is the end of John's saying who Jesus is.

He was taught and commanded by God.
He was SENT to this world.
He was empowered by God.
He was RESURRECTED by God after being DEAD.
He was REWARDED by God.

But he was NOT God.

 

[theMadThinker]

Thanks for letting me post this, JR!

 

[Idolater]

“ Suppose there are many Scriptures which indicate a distinction between the Father and Jesus.

“ Suppose there are many Scriptures which indicate some sort of equality between the Father and Jesus.

“ Only under Trinitarianism are both of these sets of Scriptures unsurprising. ”

 

[JudgeRightly]

Replying to this as one post.

WHOSE teaching?

Jesus'.

Jesus YET AGAIN shows he is not God!

No, sorry. That verse isn't Jesus showing that He isn't God.

It's Jesus showing that His authority comes from His Father.

That would be the Clergy.

What does the "clergy" have to do with this?

OOOOO! Jesus strikes HOME the point~

He "strikes home a point," but not the point you want it to be.

Case Closed!

Indeed, case closed. The testimony of the Father lends credence to the judgements Jesus was making, showing that Jesus wasn't a fraud.

Thus, any position that shows Him to be a fraud can be safely discarded.

Jesus did NOT say "I am God", or "I come from the 'Godhead" or "We came Ourselves"

So what?

Next comes the Churches (and their translations) have him speaking E-boincs!

Whatever that's supposed to mean...

First- Jesus was DENYING he was God!

No, He wasn't.

Second- "I am" is ridiculous- for Ex 3 says "I will be" instead of most translations "I am".

The Hebrew says "I Am Who I Am," or "I am the Being."

Third- The Greek reads "I WAS"- making complete SENSE!

No, sorry, it doesn't say that in John 8:58.

It says "AMEN AMEN LEGO HUMIN PRIN ABRAAM GENESTHAI EGO EIMI." "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am."

The Septuagint uses the same "ego eimi" for Exodus 3:14.

35- Jesus heard that they had cast him out, and having found him he said, “Do you believe in the Son of man?”
36- He answered, “And who is he, sir, that I may believe in him?”
37- Jesus said to him, “You have seen him, and it is he who speaks to you.”
38- He said, “Lord, I believe”; and he worshiped him. -RSV

CJB- “Lord, I trust!” he said, and he kneeled down in front of him.
DLNT- And the one said, “Master, I believe”, and prostrated-himself before Him.
DRA- And he said: I believe, Lord. And falling down, he adored him.
GW- The man bowed in front of Jesus and said, “I believe, Lord.”
GNT- “I believe, Lord!” the man said, and knelt down before Jesus.
MOUNCE- Then the man said, “I believe, Lord,” and he bowed in reverence before him.
NOG- The man bowed in front of Yeshua and said, “I believe, Lord.”
YLT- and he said, `I believe, sir,' and bowed before him.

Only God rightly accepts worship.

If Jesus was not God, then this verse describing Him accepting the man's worship would be blasphemous.

But as established above, Jesus was not a fraud.

He was truly worthy of worship, because He is God..

Now, did Jesus, as God, REMAIN ALIVE, leaving the body as an "immortal soul" and returning after 3 days?

Or did he.....DIE?

Answered before. Yes, Jesus died. He did not cease to exist, though.

And now for a scripture ETERNALLY misapplied by those believing the Trinity!

30- I and the Father are one.

Okay?

The Jews reacted as church-goers do~

You say that as though you aren't one...

33- The Jews answered him, “It is not for a good work that we stone you but for blasphemy; because you, being a man, make yourself God.”
34- Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your law, ‘I said, you are Gods’?
35- If he called them Gods to whom the word of God came (and scripture cannot be broken),
36- do you say of him whom the Father consecrated and sent into the world, ‘You are blaspheming,’ because I said, ‘I am the Son of God’?
37- If I am not doing the works of my Father, then do not believe me;
38- but if I do them, even though you do not believe me, believe the works, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me and I am in the Father.”

Jesus himself denied he was God!

Uh, no. On the contrary...

They were trying to stone Him because He was claiming to be God.

He was calling them out on their hypocrisy and their legalism.

But according to you, somehow, claiming to be God is claiming to not be God...

27- She said to him, “Yes, Lord; I believe that you are the Christ, the Son of the Trinity, God who is coming into the world.”

OR, Martha said to Jesus:

27 She said to him, “Yes, Lord; I believe that you are the Christ, the son of God, he who is coming into the world.”

Straw man.

Jesus NEVER EVER claimed to be God, much less claimed to be part of a "TRINITY"!

Deity of Christ Bible Verses: A Different Approach | KGOV.com

kgov.com

Even the Jews never thought Jesus part of a 'Trinity'!

So?

One or Two Gods did NOT speak from Heaven.

So?

Who teaches and commands God?

The Father teaches and commands the Son.

31- When he had gone out, Jesus said, “Now is the Son of man glorified, and in him God is glorified;
32- if God is glorified in him, God will also glorify Him in himself, and glorify him at once.

Again, Christ is speaking of God separately!

Or, as one of the Persons of the Triune Godhead, He is recognizing the Father as God...

Jesus forgot to mention the 'Holy Ghost'?

No?

So here does Jesus mention him?

Yes.

God has a Name

God has many names.

One of His favorite names is "Son of Man."

(even though churches HIDE it),

Conspiracy theory nonsense.

the son has a Name...Why not the "Holy Ghost"????

Holy Ghost works just fine, no?

WHY does Jesus refer to it as "Him"?

Because He is a Person.

Duh.

Because he knows who be working thru it!

No, sorry, that's not how that works.

No one is greater than God!

Indeed.

[Not him]

So?

This one MIGHT be used point point to the 'Holy-Ghost-God'-

There is no such thing as "Holy-Ghost-God."

The Holy Spirit is God.

Puzzling words, whether spirit being or an "it"!

Puzzling? Because you reject the truth of Scripture.

Maybe some of you would share scriptures with bearing!

Whatever that's supposed to mean.

[Wonder what Name God had?]

He has many names.

19- Jesus came and stood among them and said to them, “Peace be with you.”
20- When he had said this, he showed them his hands and his side. Then the disciples were glad when they saw the Lord.
21- Jesus said to them again, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I send you.”
22- And when he had said this, he breathed [ "spirit" means "breath"] on them, and said to them, “Receive the holy spirit.
23- If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.”

28- Thomas answered him, “My Lord and my God!”

Now,Trinnies grasp a straws, using THIS to 'prove' Jesus is God.

Well, no. Thomas was calling Jesus his Lord and his God.

Are you calling Thomas a liar?

You have seen how Jesus DENYED being God!

Never happened.

Do you say he's now ADMITTING that he is?

Jesus was accepting of Thomas's worship.

If He was not God, then He would not be worthy of being called God.

AND, did Thomas mean that???

Thomas meant exactly what He said.

No, Jesus nor Thomas changed their story.

Uh... what?

Thomas was exclaiming that it WAS his savior, and that God resurrected him!

If Jesus A) was not God and B) Did not raise Himself, then He could not save anyone, let alone Thomas.

And that's not what Thomas said anyways. Thomas said nothing about Jesus being his Savior. He was calling Him his Lord and his God, which would be idolatry if Jesus was not God.

So either Thomas was rightly calling Jesus Lord and God, or Thomas was sinning by doing so.

That is the end of John's saying who Jesus is.

He was taught and commanded by God.

Correction: He was taught and commanded by His Father.

He was SENT to this world.

Correct. He was sent by His Father.

He was empowered by God.

Correct, He was given power by His Father.

He was RESURRECTED by God after being DEAD.

Jesus said in the Bible that He would raise Himself.
The Bible says God raised Jesus.

Both statements are true on the Trinitarian position.

But you want to deny the fact that Jesus said He would raise Himself.

He was REWARDED by God.

True.

But he was NOT God.

False.

Thanks for letting me post this, JR!

Bye!