God_Is_Truth
New member
am i the only one here who doesn't know who Bob Enyart is?
A Challenge for the followers of Bob Enyart
- Thread starter Jerry Shugart
- Start date
God_Is_Truth
New member
all i have ever about Bob enyart is what is talked about on here which is not that reliable.
drbrumley
Well-known member
Brother Jerry,
AMEN!!!!! This is a good start.
Another fact!!!!!! This is basic truth!
Please answer the following:
Is Circumsion of Grace?
Is the Mosiac Law of Grace?
Yet our beloved brother Peter fell in the trap and temporarily forgetting ( giving the benefit of the doubt) by acting like the law applied to Gentiles wherein Paul had to set him straight.
That's fine. But I will stick with Paul who was the apostle to the Gentiles and was givin this Dispensation of Grace.
Sorry Jerry, but the 12 apostles never forsook the Kingdom rules.
Even the scriptures bare this out. James wrote to the JEWS, Peter's 2 books are to the JEWS.
On a further thought, the 12 will always be identified with Isreal.
From the Plot.
Not until God gave Paul "the dispensation of Grace" for the Gentiles could any beleiver since Abraham live out from under the law (Romans 6:14). Yet even after God called Paul, the 12 and their early converts continued under the law. For Paul's message was for the "uncircumsion" (Gal 2:7), wheaeas the 12's ministry CONTINUED to the "circumsion" (Gal 2:9) and even their followers ministered "to no one but the JEWS ONLY" (Acts 11:19)
In Christ,
DRBrumley
AMEN!!!!! This is a good start.
Another fact!!!!!! This is basic truth!
Please answer the following:
Is Circumsion of Grace?
Is the Mosiac Law of Grace?
Yet our beloved brother Peter fell in the trap and temporarily forgetting ( giving the benefit of the doubt) by acting like the law applied to Gentiles wherein Paul had to set him straight.
That's fine. But I will stick with Paul who was the apostle to the Gentiles and was givin this Dispensation of Grace.
Sorry Jerry, but the 12 apostles never forsook the Kingdom rules.
Even the scriptures bare this out. James wrote to the JEWS, Peter's 2 books are to the JEWS.
On a further thought, the 12 will always be identified with Isreal.
From the Plot.
Not until God gave Paul "the dispensation of Grace" for the Gentiles could any beleiver since Abraham live out from under the law (Romans 6:14). Yet even after God called Paul, the 12 and their early converts continued under the law. For Paul's message was for the "uncircumsion" (Gal 2:7), wheaeas the 12's ministry CONTINUED to the "circumsion" (Gal 2:9) and even their followers ministered "to no one but the JEWS ONLY" (Acts 11:19)
In Christ,
DRBrumley
1Way
+OL remote satellite affiliate
God is Truth
You don't know who Bob Enyart is...
You say that what is talked about Bob Enyart here is not reliable.
You quoted me laughing.
I don't get what you are thinking about by quoting me. I thought geoff was funny, talking about meeting Bob once, so now he is still in therapy, he still has a sense of humor, even though he cant stand anything to do with BEL. I met Bob a few times and went to one of his seminars and a few of his TV shows, he's a very interesting character. Bob, not geoff. Geoff is interesting, but in a very different way.
You don't know who Bob Enyart is...
You say that what is talked about Bob Enyart here is not reliable.
You quoted me laughing.
I don't get what you are thinking about by quoting me. I thought geoff was funny, talking about meeting Bob once, so now he is still in therapy, he still has a sense of humor, even though he cant stand anything to do with BEL. I met Bob a few times and went to one of his seminars and a few of his TV shows, he's a very interesting character. Bob, not geoff. Geoff is interesting, but in a very different way.
God_Is_Truth
New member
i figured you were laughing because i'd never heard of Bob enyart before these boards :doh:
geoff was funny too looking back on what he wrote
so do a lot of people around here follow on what Bob teaches or do most reject him or somewhere in the middle? what's the deal with bob?
Freak
New member
Why are you so confused? Why? Throughout the Holy Scripture the salvation theme is consistent.
Moses wrote:
Then the word of the LORD came to him: "This man will not be your heir, but a son coming from your own body will be your heir." He took him outside and said, "Look up at the heavens and count the stars-if indeed you can count them." Then he said to him, "So shall your offspring be."
Abram believed the LORD , and he credited it to him as righteousness.
The prophet of Old Habakkuk tells us:
For the revelation awaits an appointed time;
it speaks of the end
and will not prove false.
Though it linger, wait for it;
it will certainly come and will not delay.
"See, he is puffed up;
his desires are not upright-
but the righteous will live by his faith."
Then the great apostle Paul of the New Covenant said:
All who rely on observing the law are under a curse, for it is written: "Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law." Clearly no one is justified before God by the law, because, "The righteous will live by faith." The law is not based on faith; on the contrary, "The man who does these things will live by them."
Your spelling is hideous, my friend.
Freak
New member
For salvation of course.
What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather, discovered in this matter? If, in fact, Abraham was justified by works, he had something to boast about--but not before God. What does the Scripture say? "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness."
Now when a man works, his wages are not credited to him as a gift, but as an obligation. However, to the man who does not work but trusts God who justifies the wicked, his faith is credited as righteousness. David says the same thing when he speaks of the blessedness of the man to whom God credits righteousness apart from works:
drbrumley
Well-known member
Book of James, Chapter 2:21-24, it says this:
James 2
21Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? 22Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? 23And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, "Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness." And he was called the friend of God. 24You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.
Notice that in verse 23 it says, "the Scripture was fulfilled". Abram had his faith accounted for righteousnes in the previous dispensation, promise. Then, in the next one, circumcision, when he was justified by works and faith, the Scripture from the previous dispensation, promise, was fulfilled.
Jam 2:23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, "Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness." And he was called the friend of God.
In Christ,
DRBrumley
Zakath
Resident Atheist
The owners of the board and some of the moderators are disciples of Enyart, and some of them attend his church. His radio broadcast (Bob Enyart Live) is even given its own forum here on TOL where his followers faithfully post links to each broadcast. There were enough questions raised about the financial relationship between Enyart and TOL early on that the following disclaimer now appears on the TOL homepage:
Enyart is what I would term a "Christian radio shock jock" who has bounced on and off of various radio and television venues over the last ten to fifteen years. His "bread and butter" message has been a self-proclaimed homophobia and a variety of Christian Reconstructionism that wants to institute an monarchy to replace the democratic republic we currently have in the U.S. According to his writings, this government would also be accompanied by revamping of the federal legal code to institute portions of the Mosaic law as the federal law of the U.S.
He recently started a church and since becoming a pastor Enyart has, of necessity, toned down some of his more egregious positions and removed most of the content from his "shadow government" site.
Sites owned or run by Enyart include KGOV.com, BobEnyartLive.com, Shadowgov.com and DenverBibleChurch.com
God_Is_Truth
New member
thanks for the info Zakath! appreciate it. :thumb:
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
Brother DRBrumbley,
No,"circumcision" is a part of the law.
No.Paul speaks of the "works" of the law as being a "curse":
"For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them"(Gal.3:10).
That does not sound like "grace" to me.And Peter called the law a "yoke" which he says that neither him nor his forefathers were able to bear:
"Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?"(Acts15:10).
Again,that does not sound like "grace" to me.And the very next verse Peter makes it plain that he was saved by "grace" just as the Gentile believers are saved by "grace":
"We believe that it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved,just as they are"(Acts15:11).
But this is all you can say about Peter's words:
We are not talking about whether or not the the law applied to the Gentiles,but instead the words of Peter as to how he was saved.He said that he was saved by "grace" just as are the Gentile believers.
Paul makes it is plain as possible that the believing remnant out of the nation of Israel were saved by the election of grace:
"Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace"(Ro.11:5,6).
The Jewish believers were saved by "grace" (as Peter says),and if it of "grace" then it is not of "works".
So there can be no doubt whatsoever that the Jews were saved by "faith" alone.
Paul says that Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes:
"For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth"(Ro.10:4).
The Twelve Apostles obviously "believed" and so there can be no doubt that for them Christ is the end of the law for righteousness for them.
But according to your ideas the Jewish believers must continue to attempt to establish their own righteousness by keeping the law.
Yes,the Jewish believers continued to follow the law through the Acts period.But this following of the law was not in order so they might establish their own righteousness.Instead,the Lord had a purpose for them continuing to keep the law during the Acts period.And that purpose is the same purpose which Paul speaks about in regard to his ministry to the Jews and his participation in the rituals of the law as seen at Acts 21:26.Here are his words to explain his actions,and they can be applied to the Jerusalem church as well:
"And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law"(1Cor.9:20).
After the Acts period came to a close we can see that the Jewish believers no longer referred to themselves as "Jews" but now they refer to themselves as "Christians"(1Pet.4:16).And during the Acts period they remained under the law,but after that period came to an end they were "at liberty" from the law (1Pet.2:16 compare with Gal.5:1,13).
In His grace,--Jerry
geoff
New member
my brain hurts... I've never read so much dribble in my life.. zakath is the only one who has made any sense so far.. except for
1way:
I can recommend reading Dr G Bahnsen's book, Theonomy in Christian Ethics, especially the first section, regarding the abrogation of the law. If you havent read that, you shouldnt be debating this, IMHO.
1way:
I can recommend reading Dr G Bahnsen's book, Theonomy in Christian Ethics, especially the first section, regarding the abrogation of the law. If you havent read that, you shouldnt be debating this, IMHO.
1Way
+OL remote satellite affiliate
I can't believe Zak had the nerve 2 degrade B.E. after being so wipped!
I can't believe Zak had the nerve 2 degrade B.E. after being so wipped!
God Is Truth - Oh man, talk about getting snowed. You just thanked Zakath for a load of crap he just dumped right in front of you. Zakath practically hates us Enyartians, he is a devout atheist (for the sake of pure foolishness), I'm telling you. Don't listen to him (except for some of the raw data). Check out the Battle Royal VII, it's Bob Enyart verses Zakath(!) entitled "Does God exist? " Bob totally demolished him, he went way beyond the call of duty, did an outstanding job of providing a lot of scientific evidence and such. Zakath didn't even finish, let alone put up a respectable fight. Zakath does have some of the core basics right, but colored in remarks are all "off color" and biased against him, go figure.
Bob is the best bible study teacher I have ever come across, especially in terms of having a total big picture understanding of God's word. His does not specialize in linguistics or cutting edge scholarship, as much as a solid consistent bible wide understanding. He is great on practical application and clear and logical presentations. He does seminars around the country and is writing his second book, a sequel to The Plot. That should really be something.
I though you had been here a long time, are you pulling our legs that you don't know about who Bob E is?
One little side note, I was at John Mangopolis's (spl?) house (seriouis conservative and friend/associate of Bob's) one night that Bob was asked about the "open view", and a bit to my surprise, he had not heard about it yet! He said that he does not keep up much on theology per say. He's a bible man. :thumb: Bob Enyart and Bob Hill (his old pastor and dean of Derby school of theology) have been longtime proponents of the open view, but perhaps they called it free will theism without the Calvinism or something like that. That was at the taping of Bob Enyart debating Brian Swartly on Predestination, and boy was that debate great. That weekend was so much fun. We even had a thing John calls the heretic club, where everyone gets together and sort of takes off the gloves and gets serious and lively about God and politics and bible and other such eternally minded things. That was a great night too!
About the financial disclaimer. Knight and his family, along with another Christian family, his sister and brother in law have been carrying the financial load without any church or ministry backing all this time! Knight does this as a part time hobby! He doesn't make money off this, although I think it is growing and I hope it does better, it costs alot of time and effort and a sizable enough amount of money to make it all happen. So in order to help others understand the nature of this website's financial situation, of course they needed to make it clear that this website is brought to you by some regular folks who happen to have big hearts but NOT a big expense account. Some go out of their way to try to make BEL and TOL look bad, saying things like that this site is probably financially backed by BEL so they really aren't hurting for donations like the say they are, so the clarification was useful and sincere, not a shadey response. For a long time, the websit has been just a hobby, I don't think that Knight really expected so many people to make it what it has become and is becoming, but the donations have been very modest, I know that TOL has always been in the red as far as donations go, but that may be turning around in recent times, I hope. Those two families have gone though a lot just for all of us!
Reading Freaks (CORRECTION) Zakath's description is one part informative, and 2 parts agregious. Bob has been a pastor now for probably over 3 years or so, and I know of nothing about him toning down or removing content because he is now in a more reputation sensative vocation, the way Freak puts it. I have not visited ShadowGov much, but it was an interestingt site. Your open view, so your half way there to the teachings in the Plot!
I hope this helps.
I can't believe Zak had the nerve 2 degrade B.E. after being so wipped!
God Is Truth - Oh man, talk about getting snowed. You just thanked Zakath for a load of crap he just dumped right in front of you. Zakath practically hates us Enyartians, he is a devout atheist (for the sake of pure foolishness), I'm telling you. Don't listen to him (except for some of the raw data). Check out the Battle Royal VII, it's Bob Enyart verses Zakath(!) entitled "Does God exist? " Bob totally demolished him, he went way beyond the call of duty, did an outstanding job of providing a lot of scientific evidence and such. Zakath didn't even finish, let alone put up a respectable fight. Zakath does have some of the core basics right, but colored in remarks are all "off color" and biased against him, go figure.
Bob is the best bible study teacher I have ever come across, especially in terms of having a total big picture understanding of God's word. His does not specialize in linguistics or cutting edge scholarship, as much as a solid consistent bible wide understanding. He is great on practical application and clear and logical presentations. He does seminars around the country and is writing his second book, a sequel to The Plot. That should really be something.
I though you had been here a long time, are you pulling our legs that you don't know about who Bob E is?
One little side note, I was at John Mangopolis's (spl?) house (seriouis conservative and friend/associate of Bob's) one night that Bob was asked about the "open view", and a bit to my surprise, he had not heard about it yet! He said that he does not keep up much on theology per say. He's a bible man. :thumb: Bob Enyart and Bob Hill (his old pastor and dean of Derby school of theology) have been longtime proponents of the open view, but perhaps they called it free will theism without the Calvinism or something like that. That was at the taping of Bob Enyart debating Brian Swartly on Predestination, and boy was that debate great. That weekend was so much fun. We even had a thing John calls the heretic club, where everyone gets together and sort of takes off the gloves and gets serious and lively about God and politics and bible and other such eternally minded things. That was a great night too!
About the financial disclaimer. Knight and his family, along with another Christian family, his sister and brother in law have been carrying the financial load without any church or ministry backing all this time! Knight does this as a part time hobby! He doesn't make money off this, although I think it is growing and I hope it does better, it costs alot of time and effort and a sizable enough amount of money to make it all happen. So in order to help others understand the nature of this website's financial situation, of course they needed to make it clear that this website is brought to you by some regular folks who happen to have big hearts but NOT a big expense account. Some go out of their way to try to make BEL and TOL look bad, saying things like that this site is probably financially backed by BEL so they really aren't hurting for donations like the say they are, so the clarification was useful and sincere, not a shadey response. For a long time, the websit has been just a hobby, I don't think that Knight really expected so many people to make it what it has become and is becoming, but the donations have been very modest, I know that TOL has always been in the red as far as donations go, but that may be turning around in recent times, I hope. Those two families have gone though a lot just for all of us!
Reading Freaks (CORRECTION) Zakath's description is one part informative, and 2 parts agregious. Bob has been a pastor now for probably over 3 years or so, and I know of nothing about him toning down or removing content because he is now in a more reputation sensative vocation, the way Freak puts it. I have not visited ShadowGov much, but it was an interestingt site. Your open view, so your half way there to the teachings in the Plot!
I hope this helps.
Last edited:
Just so you know... Zakath is not a reliable source.
I had to read that paragraph twice it was so funny! :chuckle:And true. :up:
1Way
+OL remote satellite affiliate
Thanks Knight! I'm an editing fool, you got my somewhat rough, almost ready version, please see my above post first paragraph for the finished product. I'm a bit slow sometimes in catching mistakes.
I hope that that lower middle para about the financies meets your approval too.
I hope that that lower middle para about the financies meets your approval too.
God_Is_Truth
New member
relax 1Way, i wasn't only going to believe what Zakath said about him. i used it as a start (zakath isn't a liar but perhaps has a slight bias towards Bob because of the battle royale which i do remember now) to getting you guys to get going and explain who you think he is. that way i get both sides of information (pro and against) giving me an all around better picture of who Bob Enyart is.
i have been around on these boards for a little while now, something like a year i think and have only heard bits and pieces of who Bob is. i knew he was in that debate so i figured out he was a christian pastor but other than that i had NEVER heard of him in my life. seriously.
thanks for enhancing my knowledge of who Bob is 1Way :up:
i have been around on these boards for a little while now, something like a year i think and have only heard bits and pieces of who Bob is. i knew he was in that debate so i figured out he was a christian pastor but other than that i had NEVER heard of him in my life. seriously.
thanks for enhancing my knowledge of who Bob is 1Way :up: