2014 was World's Warmest Year on Record

[rexlunae]

What? :AMR:

It's not.

Oh, good. Glad we can agree on that much, at least.

People should not be taxed to encourage adherence to an ideal, no matter how much "evidence" anyone throws at the issue.

Why not? Seems like a perfectly reasonable way to encourage a good without mandating it. And in this case, the ideal is the continued stability of the climate of the Earth , according to the best evidence currently available.

 

[TracerBullet]

Nope. It's just a theory.

Nice try though.

no it is a fact, the mechanism driving climate change is theory

 

[TracerBullet]

What? :AMR:

It's not.

People should not be taxed to encourage adherence to an ideal, no matter how much "evidence" anyone throws at the issue.

And begging the question is a logical fallacy.

We are being taxed to support the oil companies now

 

[Nazaroo]

no one gives a damn about the weather
when yellowstone is going to blow
and an asteroid is likely to wreck the earth,
and ww3 is breaking out.

 

[genuineoriginal]

no it doesn't

You are claiming that science has become so defunct that it no longer sees a correlation between heat from the sun and warm temperatures on earth?

 

[The Barbarian]

You are claiming that science has become so defunct that it no longer sees a correlation between heat from the sun and warm temperatures on earth?

Have you checked solar output recently? Solar output has dropped over the last few decades. In 1990, the mean value for the sunspot maximum cycle was about 155. In 2001, it peaked around 120. Last year, the peak (highest point in the cycle, remember) was just over 70. So if solar output was the determinant for world temp, we'd be heading for a record low. Instead we have a record high.
http://solarscience.msfc.nasa.gov/images/Cycle22Cycle23Cycle24big.gif

That's a wake-up call for anyone who hasn't guzzled the denier kool-aid.

 

[Stripe]

Oh, good. Glad we can agree on that much, at least.

You're weird. :AMR:

Why not?

Because governments are generally only justified in taxing people based on what is necessary for the continued operation of the government.

Seems like a perfectly reasonable way to encourage a good without mandating it.

Uh, taxes are a mandate. lain:

And in this case, the ideal is the continued stability of the climate of the Earth , according to the best evidence currently available.

Event if it were true that the "best evidence" showed that people are causing the world to heat up, legislating away freedom is not a moral response.

And the fact that these people will use anything to continue the scare tactics shows just how politically motivated the whole thing is.

 

[The Barbarian]

Event if it were true that the "best evidence" showed that people are causing the world to heat up, legislating away freedom is not a moral response.

And the fact that these people will use anything to continue the scare tactics shows just how politically motivated the whole thing is.

The fact that you're frightened of the possible consequences of continued warming does not make it go away. First arm yourself with a realistic understanding of the issue, and only then consider what, if anything, might be done about it.

 

[HisServant]

The problem I see with these assertions is that it has proven in the past that their means of collecting data are very subjective and do not take into account changes in the surrounding environment year after year.

Being that humans are encroaching on the historically placed temperature monitoring stations there are going to be subtle variations in observed temperatures.

Anyhow, we have a whole bunch of information that point to a trend that the temperature is increasing, I will agree with that.

But I will not agree with a lot of the assumptions that CO2 and methane are a large contributing factor.... within the last year the estimated amount of these elements absorbed by the ocean and forests have flipped flopped quite a bit... and they are MASSIVE numbers.

Anyhow, we need to accurately figure things out before we make drastic measures that might amount to nothing in the end.

At the end of the day, the only way to reverse the trend is to reduce the human population across the board, but since we see that as a fundamental right we are at a conundrum.

 

[genuineoriginal]

http://solarscience.msfc.nasa.gov/images/Cycle22Cycle23Cycle24big.gif

Nice graphic.

I notice that the solar cycle in the graph shows decreased activity beginning in 2002 that corresponds with the reversal of global warming that freaked out the carbon taxers, and there were record peaks in 2014 that corresponds to the warmth in the title of this thread.

But, I suppose nobody vested in profiting off of carbon tax would be able to notice something like that. They are too busy trying to "hide the decline" and other more important things like that.

 

[genuineoriginal]

The fact that you're frightened of the possible consequences of continued warming does not make it go away. First arm yourself with a realistic understanding of the issue, and only then consider what, if anything, might be done about it.

It is a shame that carbon taxers have taken over the discussion and have squashed any rational discussion.

 

[TracerBullet]

The problem I see with these assertions is that it has proven in the past that their means of collecting data are very subjective and do not take into account changes in the surrounding environment year after year.

Being that humans are encroaching on the historically placed temperature monitoring stations there are going to be subtle variations in observed temperatures.

Anyhow, we have a whole bunch of information that point to a trend that the temperature is increasing, I will agree with that.

But I will not agree with a lot of the assumptions that CO2 and methane are a large contributing factor.... within the last year the estimated amount of these elements absorbed by the ocean and forests have flipped flopped quite a bit... and they are MASSIVE numbers.

Anyhow, we need to accurately figure things out before we make drastic measures that might amount to nothing in the end.

At the end of the day, the only way to reverse the trend is to reduce the human population across the board, but since we see that as a fundamental right we are at a conundrum.

 

[User Name]

All of the "solutions" involve increased restrictions on freedom

Which is why I accept only the most ethical solutions--meaning those solutions which benefit literally everyone, such as using LED light bulbs. These bulbs cost on average about $10 a piece, give or take. That might sound like too much to pay for a light bulb, but consider these factors:

1) The life expectancy of LED bulbs is about 20 years.
2) LED bulbs use only a small fraction of electricity as compared with incandescent, compact fluorescent, or halogen bulbs.
3) They pay for themselves within about 2 years with the energy savings.
4) The savings continue to accrue for years after they pay for themselves, making them an investment that returns up to 15X or more than their initial cost over their total lifespan.
5) Many energy companies offer rebates to their customers who purchase LED bulbs, making the savings even greater.​

Besides which, imagine no longer having to replace burnt out bulbs every few months. Everybody wins, including those who don't believe in global warming.

 

[Stripe]

Which is why I accept only the most ethical solutions--meaning those solutions which benefit literally everyone, such as using LED light bulbs. These bulbs cost on average about $10 a piece, give or take. That might sound like too much to pay for a light bulb, but consider these factors:

1) The life expectancy of LED bulbs is about 20 years.
2) LED bulbs use only a small fraction of electricity as compared with incandescent, compact fluorescent, or halogen bulbs.
3) They pay for themselves within about 2 years with the energy savings.
4) The savings continue to accrue for years after they pay for themselves, making them an investment that returns up to 15X or more than their initial cost over their total lifespan.
5) Many energy companies offer rebates to their customers who purchase LED bulbs, making the savings even greater.​

Besides which, imagine no longer having to replace burnt out bulbs every few months. Everybody wins, including those who don't believe in global warming.

Which is all fine, but the warmists are looking to mandate what you call "ethical" behavior, as well as numerous other highly suspect notions.

 

[genuineoriginal]

You should be asking whether it is a big hoax and we turn the US into a third word country through carbon taxation for nothing.
Of course, if you really look at the results of carbon taxation, all it accomplishes is increasing the prices of everything taxed while doing absolutely nothing about the so-called problem with carbon dioxide.

Carbon taxers should not be allowed to participate in the global warming debate.

 

[The Barbarian]

I notice that the solar cycle in the graph shows decreased activity beginning in 2002 that corresponds with the reversal of global warming that freaked out the carbon taxers

Well, let's take a look. From GISS data:

• 2000 40
• 2001 52
• 2002 60
• 2003 59
• 2004 51
• 2005 65
• 2006 59
• 2007 62
• 2008 51
• 2009 59
• 2010 66
• 2011 55
• 2012 57
• 2013 60
• 2014 68

Sample size: 14
Mean x (x̄): 7.5
Mean y (ȳ): 57.642857142857
Intercept (a): 50.10989010989
Slope (b): 1.0043956043956
Regression line equation: y=50.10989010989+1.0043956043956x

So even though sun activity was dropping during this time, there was still significant warming. The reduction in solar output was insufficient to overcome the effect of more carbon dioxide in the atmosphere.

and there were record peaks in 2014 that corresponds to the warmth in the title of this thread.

No, in fact, the current cycle is less than half of what it was in previous cycles. And yet temperatures are at record levels. This is consistent with the evidence that solar output matters, but not as much as rising CO2 levels.

But, I suppose nobody vested in profiting off of carbon-based energy would be able to notice something like that. They are too busy trying to "hide the rise" and other more important things like that.

 

[Ktoyou]

It's official, 2014 was the world's warmest year on record.

Of course it was actually somewhat cool in the eastern US, but it was hot pretty much everywhere else.

Good news!

It was somewhat cold in the north eastern USA, not so much down here.

 

[genuineoriginal]

No, in fact, the current cycle is less than half of what it was in previous cycles. And yet temperatures are at record levels. This is consistent with the evidence that solar output matters, but not as much as rising CO2 levels.

You mean like how the rising CO2 levels between 1940 and 1970 resulted in global cooling, and the same thing happening in 2002?

 

[User Name]

Which is all fine, but the warmists are looking to mandate what you call "ethical" behavior, as well as numerous other highly suspect notions.

Practically everyone is out to mandate whatever they consider to be ethical behavior. Global warming aside, I'm sure you also would prefer to live in a cleaner environment--to breathe cleaner air, drink cleaner water, etc. I'm more of a moderate myself. I'm not much in favor of big guberment solutions to any problem as they tend to be hugely over-budget and under-performing. The most optimal environmental solutions are coming from the free-market private sector where people have realized that there are personal financial gains to be made in an economy that is green in more ways than one.

 

[Stripe]

Practically everyone is out to mandate whatever they consider to be ethical behavior.

:AMR:

Is this an argument for something?

Global warming aside, I'm sure you also would prefer to live in a cleaner environment--to breathe cleaner air, drink cleaner water, etc.

:AMR: Is this another argument for something?

I'm more of a moderate myself. I'm not much in favor of big guberment solutions to any problem as they tend to be hugely over-budget and under-performing. The most optimal environmental solutions are coming from the free-market private sector where people have realized that there are personal financial gains to be made in an economy that is green in more ways than one.

Meanwhile, the government keeps increasing taxes. Have you not noticed?