ClimateSanity
New member
The preterism / dispy divide is just as nasty and the people's mindsets as far apart as the conservative/ progressive divide in American politics.
ECT 10 Principles of NT eschatology
- Thread starter Interplanner
- Start date
- Status
The preterism / dispy divide is just as nasty and the people's mindsets as far apart as the conservative/ progressive divide in American politics.
Interplanner
Well-known member
Interesting observation, but the theological one has much more in common than the other as pairings go.
I hope to help people get beyond mere restatements. When we dare share a reason, we may encounter the reality that we need to.
Interplanner
Well-known member
re #1
Predictions have exactness to them. Christ did do some predicting and it was vivid enough for those listening. (It would not matter to people X000 years away).
Rom 11 is not one. Not when 'saved' is not a theocratic prediction to start with, but is going on right then!
But the whole of ch 11 has a reason for urging/prodding: it is 10:14 where the string of questions points to the mission Israel was expected to do.
Do opponents of this have some other thing they see in these verses that Israel is supposed to do? I don't think so. Not with that kind of clarity as found in 10:14. That is what Paul wants Israel to be.
Christ had 221 of these people by the time he left, if we may assume that at least 2 were found by each of the 70.
Predictions have exactness to them. Christ did do some predicting and it was vivid enough for those listening. (It would not matter to people X000 years away).
Rom 11 is not one. Not when 'saved' is not a theocratic prediction to start with, but is going on right then!
But the whole of ch 11 has a reason for urging/prodding: it is 10:14 where the string of questions points to the mission Israel was expected to do.
Do opponents of this have some other thing they see in these verses that Israel is supposed to do? I don't think so. Not with that kind of clarity as found in 10:14. That is what Paul wants Israel to be.
Christ had 221 of these people by the time he left, if we may assume that at least 2 were found by each of the 70.
Interplanner
Well-known member
Don't just restate positions; if you don't accept a proposition, explain why the passage is not going that direction.
All you did was state yours.
I used them to state their opposite.
While, any set of reasons for their opposite can only end up a moot point - because the overall frame of reference either side sees these thing from, in general - differs.
Til that is settled Preterists and MADs, or any other, will be talking in circles to one another.
This is already the problem going into to any discussion.
One would hope that one problem alone would be enough.
It is not. Too many insistent on bringing other problems to the table.
You included.
Interplanner
Well-known member
What specific is the problem with any one of them? What is the direction of the passage as defined in its own terms?
That is what this thread is for. The rest should just shut up.
That is what this thread is for. The rest should just shut up.
Interplanner
Well-known member
I guess they did (shut up). The 10 propositions stand true, then.
Interplanner
Well-known member
Ecclesiastes 8:11 Because sentence against an evil work is not executed speedily, therefore the heart of the sons of men is fully set in them to do evil.
Interplanner
Well-known member
You're a totally strange group as in cult.
:chuckle:
Interplanner
Well-known member
Your use of cartoons seriously limits your ability to articulate. It takes you directly to an emotion instead of to the rational question at hand. You then feel like you have dealt with a question when you have not. Feel like. That's the modern mentality--"everyone today talks about feeling like this or that, instead of actually knowing or doing things."--Margaret Thatcher
Lol; you even have that little bit backwords.
Fact is, my use of the :chuckle: icon does NOT "take" me "directly to an emotion instead of to the rational question at hand" as you put it.
Rather; the irrationality of your questions and or comments do :chuckle:
In other words, I find it humorous that you are as unaware as you are of the fact that you are unaware - this; even as you go on and on about how aware you are.
Since that will go right past you; I'll it lay it out...
This often stuck state of yours so often prompting my chuckle is what is referred to within my favorite study topic (the study of how one thing interacts with another) as unconscious incompetence.
You THINK you know what you are talking about.
Yours is what the Apostle Paul refers to as "wise in your own conceits" and "the vanity of their mind, through the ignorance that is in them" :chuckle:
Yours is the "rational" of looking at a thing from within an irrationality...
This here from Romans 1 is the very seat of your so called "rational."
Romans 1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. 1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
Interplanner
Well-known member
Shame on you for putting me in the same category as some degenerate track. It is not that complicated Danoh. Shut up or put up. If it is so important--your so very important MAD Paul's apostleship distinction that is soooooo necessary--say it or shut up. If you are not involved in evangelism, shut up. I tell people about the same gospel that I am talking about here. God was in Christ to delete them from our record. If you have a fricking problem with that you are in a cult. I have no idea, absolutely no idea what you are about, why you love division, what you think is important about God's grace or the Gospel, what you are doing with your life for the brutally lost world, none of that. Because you are the worst communicator I have encountered. And wasteful, and arrogant.
Interplanner
Well-known member
Worst meaning least necessary. What is the necessity of your view?
Interplanner
Well-known member
10 Propositions of NT eschatology
1, Rom 11 is prodding not prediction
2, Gal 3:17 is the true RT issue
3, Isaiah shifts Davidic promises; it is not a recent or even a Paul idea
4, Acts 26 shapes Israel's outcome
5, The "people" of Mt 21 are Christians
6, Rom 2 is about both Jew and Gentile on the day of judgement
7, 2 Pet 3 is the best passage on the future in plain language and for its length
8, NT eschatology does not mix 1st century Judean events with future worldwide day of judgement
9, the apostles spent their time expounding Ps 2, 16, 110, not Ps 83
10, "saved" in Rom 11 is justification from our debt of sin, not a future theocracy for Israel
Perhaps some of the guys here at TOL can take one of these apart, but I haven't seen it yet.
1, Rom 11 is prodding not prediction
2, Gal 3:17 is the true RT issue
3, Isaiah shifts Davidic promises; it is not a recent or even a Paul idea
4, Acts 26 shapes Israel's outcome
5, The "people" of Mt 21 are Christians
6, Rom 2 is about both Jew and Gentile on the day of judgement
7, 2 Pet 3 is the best passage on the future in plain language and for its length
8, NT eschatology does not mix 1st century Judean events with future worldwide day of judgement
9, the apostles spent their time expounding Ps 2, 16, 110, not Ps 83
10, "saved" in Rom 11 is justification from our debt of sin, not a future theocracy for Israel
Perhaps some of the guys here at TOL can take one of these apart, but I haven't seen it yet.
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
Speak plainly and stop writing in riddles.
Interplanner
Well-known member
I don't see where any of these have been broken. I would add that Acts 2:30 is 2P2P/D'ism at its worst. It completely denies what Peter is saying David is referring to, against the grammatical meaning, for the sake of the land promise.
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
Comparing and contrasting, juxtaposing and interjecting Eph3C and Heb10A with Mt24R, I have found that the Messianic Enterprise along with the Millenium Falcon have superceded all red dirt prophecies found in the dusty letters of the law and prophets when compared to the brilliant light and illumination of their fulfilments.
Interplanner
Well-known member
David said the resurrection is the enthronement of Christ in his kingdom. Deal with it.
- Status