1 of 5 for GT to Debate (The entire book of Galatians)

Nameless.In.Grace

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The Law of Moses precluded human sacrifice. Jesus' death had nothing to do with fulfilling Mosaic law. On the contrary, Jesus' sacrifice is completely and totally outside of Mosaic law. Jesus didn't fulfill the law, he magnified it and then asked the Father not to hold the Jews accountable for his death.
Matthew 5:

Christ Came to Fulfill the Law

17*“Do not think that I have come to abolish*the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but*to fulfill them.*18*For truly, I say to you,*until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished.

John 19:

30*When Jesus had received the sour wine, He said,*“It is finished!”*Then bowing His head, He gave up His spirit.

.......... You really don't get it?

Sour wine?

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jamie

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Matthew 5:

Christ Came to Fulfill the Law

17*“Do not think that I have come to abolish*the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but*to fulfill them.*18*For truly, I say to you,*until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished.

Paul taught that we are not saved by Jesus' death, but we have been reconciled to the Father so that we can be saved.

Jesus' atonement was outside the Law of Moses and fulfilled nothing with regard to the law.
 

Nameless.In.Grace

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Paul taught that we are not saved by Jesus' death, but we have been reconciled to the Father so that we can be saved.

Jesus' atonement was outside the Law of Moses and fulfilled nothing with regard to the law.
??

17*“Do not think that I have come to abolish*the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but*to FULFILL them.*18*For truly, I say to you,*until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished.

Accomplished or finished.

John 19:

30*When Jesus had received the SOUR WINE, He said,*“It is FINISHED!”*Then bowing His head, He gave up His spirit.

Jamie,

Jesus is the new wine. Moses is the old wine.

Jesus says until all is accomplished or finished.

At the cross He is thirsty.

Jesus then is given Gull, or poor man's wine. It is sour, overly fermented wine.

He immediately says, it is finished.

How can your turn a blind eye to this?

Paul teaches this over and over.

Do you even study on your own?
 

God's Truth

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The Law of Moses precluded human sacrifice. Jesus' death had nothing to do with fulfilling Mosaic law. On the contrary, Jesus' sacrifice is completely and totally outside of Mosaic law. Jesus didn't fulfill the law, he magnified it and then asked the Father not to hold the Jews accountable for his death.

You are badly mistaken, not knowing the Word of God and the scriptures. I can hardly believe you said something so ignorant.
 

God's Truth

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Epistle of Barnabas


CHAPTER 10

The Food-law of the Jews -- The explanation in the Psalter

1 Now, in that Moses said, "Ye shall not eat swine, nor an eagle, nor a hawk, nor a crow, nor any fish which has no scales on itself," he included three doctrines in his understanding.

2 Moreover he says to them in Deuteronomy, "And I will make a covenant of my ordinances with this people." So then the ordinance of God is not abstinence from eating, but Moses spoke in the spirit.

3 He mentioned the swine for this reason: you shall not consort, he means, with men who are like swine, that is to say, when they have plenty they forget the Lord, but when they are in want they recognise the Lord, just as the swine when it eats does not know its master, but when it is hungry it cries out, and after receiving food is again silent.

4 "Neither shalt thou eat the eagle nor the hawk nor the kite nor the crow." Thou shalt not, he means, join thyself or make thyself like to such men, as do not know how to gain their food by their labour and sweat, but plunder other people's property in their iniquity, and lay wait for it, though they seem to walk in innocence, and look round to see whom they may plunder in their covetousness, just as these birds alone provide no food for themselves, but sit idle, and seek how they may devour the flesh of others, and become pestilent in their iniquity.

5 "Thou shalt not eat," he says, "the lamprey nor the polypus nor the cuttlefish." Thou shalt not, he means, consort with or become like such men who are utterly ungodly and who are already condemned to death, just as these fish alone are accursed, and float in the deep water, not swimming like the others but living on the ground at the bottom of the sea.

6 Sed nec "leporem manducabis." Non eris, inquit, corruptor puerorum nec similabis talibus. Quia lepus singulis annis facit ad adsellandum singula foramina; et quotquot annis vivit, totidem foramina facit.

7 Sed "nec beluam, inquit, manducabis"; hoc est non eris moecus aut adulter, nec corruptor, nec similabis talibus. Quia haec bestia alternis annis mutat naturam et fit modo masculus, modo femina.

8 Sed et quod dicit mustelam odibis. Non eris, inquit, talis, qui audit iniquitatem et loquitur immunditiam. Non inquit adhaerebis immundis qui iniquitatem faciunt ore suo.

9 Moses received three doctrines concerning food and thus spoke of them in the Spirit; but they received them as really referring to food, owing to the lust of their flesh.

10 But David received knowledge concerning the same three doctrines, and says: "Blessed is the man who has not gone in the counsel of the ungodly" as the fishes go in darkness in the deep waters, "and has not stood in the way of sinners" like those who seem to fear the Lord, but sin like the swine, "and has not sat in the seat of the scorners" like the birds who sit and wait for their prey. Grasp fully the doctrines concerning food.

11 Moses says again, "Eat of every animal that is cloven hoofed and ruminant." What does he mean? That he who receives food knows him who feeds him, and rests on him and seems to rejoice. Well did he speak with regard to the commandment. What then does he mean? Consort with those who fear the Lord, with those who meditate in their heart on the meaning of the word which they have received, with those who speak of and observe the ordinances of the Lord, with those who know that meditation is a work of gladness, and who ruminate on the word of the Lord. But what does "the cloven hoofed" mean? That the righteous both walks in this world and looks forward to the holy age. See how well Moses legislated.

12 But how was it possible for them to understand or comprehend these things? But we having a righteous understanding of them announce the commandments as the Lord wished. For this cause he circumcised our hearing and our hearts that we should comprehend these things.

Why are you reading books not protected by the title of Holy Bible written Word of God?
 

God's Truth

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The dietary Law was based off of what foreigners sacrificed to their gods. In this, I totally agree.

Did you see the next verses up and posted?

I do not care about the dietary law of foreigners and their gods. I only want to speak about the word of God as written in the Holy Bible. God gave Moses commandments for a special diet. Speak about that.
 

Nameless.In.Grace

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You have to understand the scriptures about judging. We are to make RIGHTEOUS JUDGMENTS.

We are not to make hypocritical judgments.

You confuse final judgments with all kinds of judgments.

But a spiritual man judges everything and he is not judged by any man.

We are to judge those in the church.

We already know those who are not in Christ are condemned.
GT,

I understand your perspective.

I do not judge those in church. I however fight my desire to do so.

My personal take on the Spiritual man making judgment is that he knows he is saved by grace and love alone, so out of humility, he does not judge.

I also believe a church should be a hospital for the broken.

Unfortunately, people are hurting and too afraid of the a typical finger pointing and hypocritical misunderstandings to be honest with their church family.

This is why my theology stays razor sharp to bring comfort to the spiritually sick and those imprisoned by sin that are judged and cast away like worthless things.

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Nameless.In.Grace

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No, the entire law is not the purification/ceremonial works.

These are the works that are associated with the purification works:

The Burnt Offering; The Grain Offering; The Fellowship Offering; The Sin Offering; The Guilt Offering; Dietary Laws; Purification After Childbirth; Cleansing From Infectious Skin Diseases; Cleansing From Mildew; Discharges Causing Uncleanness; The Day of Atonement; Rules for Priests; The Sabbath; Firstfruits; The Passover and Unleavened Bread; Feast of Weeks; Feast of Trumpets; Feast of Tabernacles; Oil and Bread Set Before The LORD; the Sabbath Year; The Year of Jubilee; Circumcision.


Go read Leviticus.

Read how Jesus is the Lamb.
I understand your view on this.

Excellent exposition of the portions of the law.

I wrote about this for the last verses of Gal. 2.

But, I believe that Jesus Fulfilled the entire law. I genuinely spoke about this in my long post.
 

Nameless.In.Grace

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You are not commenting deeply enough on what I say. I just have not idea how far we are drifting apart on some of the scriptures.
GT,

I know exactly where we differ, however, I prefer to write from my side of the chunk of verses and then read your side. It is more peaceful than stepping on each others toes of perspective.

I generated a book today for my part. I tried to work it up with everybody's challenges and questions in mind.

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God's Truth

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GT,

I understand your perspective.

I do not judge those in church.

My personal take on the Spiritual man making judgment is that he knows he is saved by grace and love alone, so out of humility, he does not judge.
God's Word says we are to judge those in the church.

You are now going against the scriptures and making your own gospel, which is no gospel.


I also believe a church should be a hospital for the broken.
I do not see that in the scriptures. What I do see is that the God fearing who do right are those whom the gospel has been sent.

See Acts 13:26, and Acts 10:35.

Please do not disrespect the Word of God and try to put any scripture aside, for it cannot be done.

See John 10:35.
 

Nameless.In.Grace

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God's Word says we are to judge those in the church.

You are now going against the scriptures and making your own gospel, which is no gospel.



I do not see that in the scriptures. What I do see is that the God fearing who do right are those whom the gospel has been sent.

See Acts 13:26, and Acts 10:35.

Please do not disrespect the Word of God and try to put any scripture aside, for it cannot be done.

See John 10:35.
GT,

You have not expounded on Galatians after the first day.

It is the hammer of Paul and the bane of those that pervert the gospel with fear, and works that are cleverly tied back to obedience.

I put hours into my post today.

GT,

You know me. You know I am honest and sincere.

I believe Jesus Loves you more than you realize.

You are genuinely in your Bible, but why are you so stuck on fear and obedience in your commission?

What makes you so certain that Jesus didn't love you before you obeyed?

Is God Loving and patient or Tyrannical and demanding?
 

God's Truth

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GT,

You have not expounded on Galatians after the first day.

It is the hammer of Paul and the bane of those that pervert the gospel with fear, and works that are cleverly tied back to obedience.

I put hours into my post today.

GT,

You know me. You know I am honest and sincere.

I believe Jesus Loves you more than you realize.

You are genuinely in your Bible, but why are you so stuck on fear and obedience in your commission?

What makes you so certain that Jesus didn't love you before you obeyed?

Is God Loving and patient or Tyrannical and demanding?

Why do you keep falsely judging?

I know how much Jesus loves me.

You are resorting only to your false beliefs.

Let's debate the scriptures.


Obedience does not cause fear, as you have so twisted the truth.

Fear of God keeps sin out of our lives.

There is never ever anything wrong with obedience, as you have suggested and argued.

Where do you think that comes from?

Where do you think preaching ANYTHING against obedience comes from?

It comes from the devil.

Who but the devil would be behind shaming anyone for obedience to Christ?

Obedience to Christ means living your life in your home by keeping busy, not thinking evil, doing no harm, trusting in Him, and humbly forgiving all...etc.

You have been misled into thinking obeying Jesus means we have lose our home, give up our cars and computer, etc. You have been deceived and deceive others by teaching obedience is burdensome, heavy, and hard.

Stop preaching against obedience to Christ.

It is the work of the devil---NO MATTER HOW YOU LOOK AT IT.
 

Nameless.In.Grace

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Why do you keep falsely judging?

I know how much Jesus loves me.

You are resorting only to your false beliefs.

Let's debate the scriptures.


Obedience does not cause fear, as you have so twisted the truth.

Fear of God keeps sin out of our lives.

There is never ever anything wrong with obedience, as you have suggested and argued.

Where do you think that comes from?

Where do you think preaching ANYTHING against obedience comes from?

It comes from the devil.

Who but the devil would be behind shaming anyone for obedience to Christ?

Obedience to Christ means living your life in your home by keeping busy, not thinking evil, doing no harm, trusting in Him, and humbly forgiving all...etc.

You have been misled into thinking obeying Jesus means we have lose our home, give up our cars and computer, etc. You have been deceived and deceive others by teaching obedience is burdensome, heavy, and hard.

Stop preaching against obedience to Christ.

It is the work of the devil---NO MATTER HOW YOU LOOK AT IT.

Devil means accuser. Satan means Adversary. If Jesus died for disobedient enemies, what separates any from God?

If Satan initiated disobedience to separate humanity from God and God reconciled this through the Life and Death of His Son, who is the one proclaiming to the world that disobedience still separates us from The Hope of All?

Romans 10:

10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

11 For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.

12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him.

13 For “whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Romans 5:

8 But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

9 Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him.

10 For if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.

11 And not only that, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received the reconciliation.

................ Consider this ;

A righteous Father Loves Unconditionally.

A father of iniquity has no mercy, and demands all.

Who is the father that desires true, experiential Love?



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jamie

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17*“Do not think that I have come to abolish*the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but*to FULFILL them.*18*For truly, I say to you,*until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished.

Accomplished or finished.

Since heaven and earth have not passed away it should be obvious that the law has not been fulfilled.

Even in Paul's day the law foreshadowed things to come.

The Mosaic law prohibited human sacrifice. Jesus died for sin in spite of the law.

How could something excluded by the law be a fulfillment of the law?
 

Nameless.In.Grace

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Since heaven and earth have not passed away it should be obvious that the law has not been fulfilled.

Even in Paul's day the law foreshadowed things to come.

The Mosaic law prohibited human sacrifice. Jesus died for sin in spite of the law.

How could something excluded by the law be a fulfillment of the law?

Jamie,

Jesus Loves you, and that is my peace.

I'm still going to go cry now. ADVIL!!!!


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