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Except for what Paul already said in 1 Thessalonian 4: 15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of...

I think it just means waiting....being patient. True about Abel's blood. However, things will be going on in heaven. I'm sorry, what passage in Revelation are you talking about?

True, but the disciples didn't know he had actually died. They also used the term sleep for being asleep. It's like the word "gone". They might have left the building or they were dead. Well, we know that the soul is the person himself. Who he is. I would think that the person could sleep...

I'm not seeing it. God is spirit....spirit to spirit. So rather than being "spiritually dead" and trying to explain that away, why not just admit that God, Himself, decides whether or not He will hear us. Isaiah 59:1-2 Behold, the Lord's hand is not shortened, that it cannot save; neither...

There is no bottom to the evil we're seeing.

They were carrying on a conversation. Curses? Well, He cursed the serpent and He cursed the ground. Sin entered the world. God still interacted with Adam and Eve making them coverings of skins. He even interacted with Cain, after Cain had killed able. No separation from God there. Gen...

I remember when we used to go back and forth on Samuel. :) If someone was waiting in Abraham's bosom, then of course, he's just relaxing and waiting.

No, they don't. They could commune with God and He with them. They were still in the garden as was God.

On this one, he doesn't tell them to go back to sleep, does he? Resting is not sleeping.

That, too.

Actually, God knew they were hiding. God waited for Adam explain himself. Gen. 3:8 And they heard the voice of the Lord God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the Lord God amongst the trees of the garden. 9 And the Lord God...

I'm one who believes that God seeing good in the creation of Adam, and being grieved at what man is capable of is ALL part of his character. He does not change, He is so much bigger than man can imagine.

Yes, it reminds me of this verse. Matthew 23:37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!

If you say so. If you say so. You're so much better than everyone else. You lie. I said IF you beat your kids black and blue, they could still run out in front of a car. Yet, I did put up with you saying I was a horrible mother, in fact you gave me some information about how to be a good...

The question is when the soul dies. And it says soul, not spirit. If you count them together, which I think they are, then it still doesn't say the "soul" dies immediately on sinning. In fact, there are some Judgments coming up that will determine what happens. We may be condemned to death...

Ah, so you believe in soul sleep because death was called sleep back in the day? Jesus wasn't lying, He was speaking to people who knew what "sleep" meant.

Saying it doesn't make it so, Clete.

The OT fathers called it sleep, because it looks like the person is sleeping. No more no less.

Now, I am totally fascinated. I must look into this one. :geek:

Yes, very odd, but since I've been such a bad girl and haven't followed this entire thread, maybe I'll see what Derf has to say. In fact, you've piqued my interest. Maybe I can actually wade through this thing. We'll see.