Selaphiel

It's saddening to see for sure, along with the amount of arrogance and immaturity from that lot...

Happy New Year to you too, Sela.

No I haven't, but I will. The holidays, plus other stuff going on in real life have left me exhausted. My "real" vacation starts tomorrow, I have three weeks before going back to school. I'll definitely make sure to get back to the videos this week.

And then PPS apparently believes in geocentrism. lain: Can't win 'em all, I guess.

Not vicariousness in the sense of substitutionary punishment, which I mostly reject. Rather vicarious and for our sake in the sense that Jesus laid down his life for us and the Father honors that sacrifice and forgives and saves us. In the incarnation God himself became part of mankind. Bonhoeffer says that in the incarnation all of humanity recovers the dignity of the image of God. Any attack on mankind is an attack on Christ. Through fellowship and communion with Christ and living in the shadow of the Christ we recover true humanity.

Have you been following the thread about Nang's boastful lie? I've been enjoying PneumaPsucheSoma's posts. He takes a ontological view of things, which I've not really gotten on board with in the past but I do think it provides a way for us to be actually victorious over sin rather than just getting a label attached to us.

:e4e:

Cool. I listened to some of the New Skin album and it was pretty good.

I think what you say about Bonhoeffer is pretty accurate. I'm just trying to fill in some of the details. I've been thinking a lot about vicariousness and how what Christ did was for our sake.

Eph 4:32 And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.

1Jn 2:12 I write unto you, little children, because your sins are forgiven you for his name's sake.

One more thing!

Do you like Leonard Cohen? I'm listening to him now. Pretty enjoyable. I thought maybe you would because of your taste for Tom Waits. Not the same, but I'd say similar.

I feel like maybe it's not because of the incarnation, in and of itself, but in what the incarnation was supposed to accomplish. Jesus was the new Adam, the new man, bearing all of humanity in his life, death, and resurrection. Because of that, we are to participate in his Body as well.

Bonhoeffer does talk about that, I just wasn't making that connection at first. What do you think?


Sorry for all the messages. I've been throwing a variety of stuff at you lately. :chuckle:

Also, Bonhoeffer, as a Lutheran, would have believed in real presence in the sacraments, I assume?

Sounds like a nice time. :cigar: :cheers:

Yes, I've caught glimpses of that in the essay I just read. Looking forward to more.

I finished Bonhoeffer and am going back over certain parts. What do you think of this passage from his chapter on the Body of Christ:

"We must start at this point if we wish to understand the nature of that bodily fellowship and communion which the disciples enjoyed with their Master. It is no accident that to follow him meant cleaving to him bodily. THat was the natural consequence of the Incarnation. Had he been merely a prophet or a teacher, he would not have needed followers....But since he is the incarnate Son of God....he needs a community of followers...who will participate in his Body."

I'm not seeing the connection between the Incarnation and needing followers to participate in his Body, not just be a pupil or hearer.

:e4e:

Yes, the issue of present Kingdom vs future Kingdom is an interesting aspect of it too. Not related to that but...One thing he says about Revelation is that in Revelation not only is God delaying in mercy, prolonging suffering out of mercy, but that repentance will be brought through the suffering Church and their mission. He says the Two Witnesses are a picture of the Church and its mission. That was another part that I thought was pretty fascinating. The Two Witnesses seems to have a lot of speculation about them. Revelation is so hard to understand.

I want to read Revelation again before I start that book. I read the intro to the Jesus book the other night. Should be good.

That sounds nice. I've been alright. I have tomorrow off and then we always have New Years day off, so that will be nice. No major plans though. Hopefully H&G don't get too wild and crazy. :noid: Do you have any plans for the New Year?

:e4e:

I finished Bauckham's essay on the delay of the 2nd coming. He placed the problem in the realm of the problem of evil. The issue isn't a (or at least not only or primarily) case of failed prophecy but why does God continue to allow evil to reign and His people to suffer. I don't think I've ever thought of it in that context before. He focused on 4 texts: a particular rabbinic debate, Apocalypose of Baruch, 2 Peter 3, and Revelation. He says that most people maintain a tension between expectation/imminence and delay. God's sovereignty and mercy(more time to repent) are common themes in explaining why God delays, but there is usually not a true, acceptable explanation. Putting the problem of delay into the longer context of Judaism is something else I've never really thought of. :think:

I might make a post in that thread about the 2nd coming. Not sure.

How are you doing? :e4e:

Yes, good to see them keeping busy. lain:
Don't stare into his eyes at the 27 second mark. :noid:

Read an article about the idea that studies on brain activity and actions have shown free will to be an illusion. The author took a contrary view. He talked about implementation intentions, where planning and intentions can change how we act. And he spoke about a gray area between conscious and unconscious actions. Such as in the Libet wrist flicking experiment, the participants went into it planning to spontaneously flick. It was interesting.

I got The Theology of the Book of Revelation and Jesus and the God of Israel

I'm looking forward to them all. The one I have already is a series of essays so I may not read it straight through. I almost got the Climax of Prophecy but it's quite expensive and probably over my head. This Revelation book should get my feet wet.

:e4e:

Ordered two other Bauckham books,

I got this book: The Jewish World Around the New Testament - Richard Bauckham

Should have some interesting essays. I started one last night about the delay of the parousia. I've built up some Amazon points so I might use them to get a couple other Bauckham books too (Jesus and the God of Israel, one of his books on Revelation)

Sounds like a good holiday.

Nothing major. I'm off work today so I'm going to relax and finish wrapping a few presents. Then a church service tonight. Tomorrow morning will be family stuff but nothing else planned.

What about you?

:e4e:

Merry Christmas Sela. :wave2:

:chuckle:
Just picturing a couple alpacas in front of a gaming system with headsets on, screaming at their opponents, hopped up on Mountain Dew and candy and pizza.

Sounds like a pretty good time. lain: