Would You Sell Your Pirated Songs?

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Mr. Beeks

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Hello all!

I haven't read the whole thread, but here are a few more examples to try to reach people's conscience...

How about stealing the design of the U.S. $20 bill?
And printing some.

How about stealing someone's signature? And using it.

How about stealing someone's name and signature? And using them.

How about…

Those who think it's okay to steal other people's intellectual property would probably be awfully quick to complain at others who stole theirs.

:)

-Pastor Bob Enyart
Denver Bible Church & KGOV.com
I agree with all of this. Theft is theft. Similar things happen in our industry, they call that bid shopping. It galls me to work for 40 or 80 hours putting out an estimate, then find out that a general contractor 'shopped' it to a competitor... just to save a percent or two.


p.s. On the wild chance that this helps someone still justifying their theft and thinking that I'm just picking on this issue because I'm not interested in downloading MP3s (on the wild chance), I'll add that I run a small business and in our studio we have five PCs and volunteers often bring their own notebooks, and there are MANY times when we want to use expensive software on multiple PCs, and when we want to do that, either we buy the software or we don't do what we want. Our goal is to please God, and in our office, we encourage one another toward that end! It's a blessing! Try it, you'll like it :)
A lot of software will let you use it on more than one machine, as long as it's only running on one machine at a time. They generally do this so you can use it on your work desktop, your laptop, and home computer... in other words - separate locations. They may not like it if you share it between several desktop machines in the same building. Check the EULA.
 

Persephone66

BANNED
Banned
People that pirate music should be dealt with in what ever method the artist they stole from sees fit.
 
Last edited:

Persephone66

BANNED
Banned
p.s. On the wild chance that this helps someone still justifying their theft and thinking that I'm just picking on this issue because I'm not interested in downloading MP3s (on the wild chance), I'll add that I run a small business and in our studio we have five PCs and volunteers often bring their own notebooks, and there are MANY times when we want to use expensive software on multiple PCs, and when we want to do that, either we buy the software or we don't do what we want. Our goal is to please God, and in our office, we encourage one another toward that end! It's a blessing! Try it, you'll like it :)

Ditch Windows and install Linux on your PCs. It's all free and open source.
 

Yorzhik

Well-known member
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
Hello all!

I haven't read the whole thread, but here are a few more examples to try to reach people's conscience...

How about stealing the design of the U.S. $20 bill?
And printing some.

How about stealing someone's signature? And using it.

How about stealing someone's name and signature? And using them.

How about…

Those who think it's okay to steal other people's intellectual property would probably be awfully quick to complain at others who stole theirs.

:)

-Pastor Bob Enyart
Denver Bible Church & KGOV.com
Don't confuse fraud with copyright. Take any of your examples. When you are arrested with your copy of a $20 bill, do they prosecute you for copyright violation? When you steal someone's identity and buy stuff as if you are someone else, do they prosecute you for copyright violations?

They don't and rightly so.

What if you copy a $20 bill in your home just because you think they are pretty and frame them instead of passing them off at a store? That's OK.

What if you show your friend how you can copy any signature, even theirs, just because you're so talented? If my friend showed me that I'd think he was pretty talented. But I wouldn't turn him in for copyright violations or even be mad at him.

Even though fraud uses intellectual property, it isn't they copying that is the problem, it's the bearing of false witness in a legal context to the person who takes your false money or signature for credit. This is unlike copying MP3's which don't carry the implications of fraud.
 

Bob Enyart

Deceased
Staff member
Administrator
Fraud: deception resulting in injury to another person

Fraud: deception resulting in injury to another person

Hello Yorzhik!
Don't confuse fraud with copyright.... This is unlike copying MP3's which don't carry the implications of fraud.
Yorzhik, what do you think about selling the copyrighted software you've downloaded for free from a file-sharing site?

How about movies? How about music?

How about books you scan and sell PDFs of? If you were asked by the copyright owners if you were selling copies of their materials, would you say yes?

Thanks,

-Bob Enyart
KGOV.com
 

Aimiel

Well-known member
A lot of software will let you use it on more than one machine, as long as it's only running on one machine at a time. They generally do this so you can use it on your work desktop, your laptop, and home computer... in other words - separate locations. They may not like it if you share it between several desktop machines in the same building. Check the EULA.
I have Adobe Creative Suite 3 Design Premium; and it allows me to install it and license it on up to five machines at a time. I have it on my home desktop and laptop and on my work PC. If I exceed the number (which I've done, by crashing my PC and having to re-format my HDD several times thanks to Vista) then I have to call Adobe to kill older installations over the phone in order to re-activate my current installation.
 

Aimiel

Well-known member
Back in the Plicostene era, when computers were made of stone axes and bearskins, I belonged to Cin'tari, the Cincinnati Atari computer user's group. I was the Newsletter editor for two years. I watched in freakish awe, as did our other officers, as the club slowly de-generated into a swap-meet where all the new software which was issued siince the previous month's meeting was brought to the following month's meeting, where anyone in the club could exchange a blank floppy (the big 5-1/4" kind that really were 'floppy' because they flexed) or two or three for a 'broken' copy of the new software so they could take it home without having to buy it. Soon, no one would make software for the Atari, because there were no more customers, since everyone got software for the Atari computers for free from their friends. The Atari computer became extinct, because of the act of pirates. Our club officers lost interest and notified the club that there would be no more meetings, and that they would have to find a new place to trade their pirated software. I soon bought a Mac, and refuse to use pirated software. It kills the very business that I'm hoping will grow. If I believe in something, I ought to promote it, not try to kill it. Fans are trying to kill the music and movie industry, by pirating, not promote it. I don't expect both to continue for long. One or the other will prevail.
 

fool

Well-known member
Hall of Fame
I used Vista for two years and loved it. My computer was stolen recently and the replacement I bought has XP on which I hate.
I never had any problems with Vista.
 

Aimiel

Well-known member
I used Vista for two years and loved it. My computer was stolen recently and the replacement I bought has XP on which I hate.
I never had any problems with Vista.
Adobe and Microsoft have a habit of making one another very un-comfortable, to put it mildly. I most recently have had a very stable machine, but all it takes is for Adobe to publish an update that contains a single sub-routine that is somehow incompatible with Vista and my computer will be hosed again. That's been the culprit in the past, but I'm hoping they're doing more testing with Vista at Adobe and have learned from past mistakes. :thumb:
 

elohiym

Well-known member
...what do you think about selling the copyrighted software you've downloaded for free from a file-sharing site?

How about movies? How about music?

How about books you scan and sell PDFs of? If you were asked by the copyright owners if you were selling copies of their materials, would you say yes?

Those examples could all constitute acts of fraud, as well as copyright infringement.

Fraud is a knowing misrepresentation of the truth or concealment of a material fact to induce another to act to his or her detriment. See Black's Law Dictionary.

Selling those items could constitute fraud in the inducement. The misrepresentation of your ability to sell those items would lead another to enter into an illegal transaction.
 

Aimiel

Well-known member
I used to tape record music off the radio, and replay it in my car, when I didn't like the song on the radio. Now, with my iPhone, I listen to MP3's that iTunes makes of my CD's, simply by inserting the CD into the optical drive. Those copies could be considered pirated, even though I own the CD. The industry gives those a nod, because they're simply 'back-up' copies of a CD. I don't carry CD's in my car, I carry CD's with copies of the original MP3's on them, rather than risk scratching the original CD's in my glovebox or in transit. Those are 'pirated' copies, but I give them the nod, because I own the CD's. I often copy movies off my DVR onto DVD's so my kids can watch them over and over in the car (kids love repetition of videos) but I give those copies the 'nod' because they are from broadcasts I've received on my TV tuner. I'm a pirate, in the strictest sense, but I wouldn't sell, trade or give away any of the works I've duplicated, even though I might re-sell my original CD's or DVD's. Piracy works to destroy creativity, and I'm all about promoting creativity.
 

Mr. Beeks

New member
I have Adobe Creative Suite 3 Design Premium; and it allows me to install it and license it on up to five machines at a time. I have it on my home desktop and laptop and on my work PC. If I exceed the number (which I've done, by crashing my PC and having to re-format my HDD several times thanks to Vista) then I have to call Adobe to kill older installations over the phone in order to re-activate my current installation.
Yup, I've had similar experiences with AutoCAD.
 

Aimiel

Well-known member
Yup, I've had similar experiences with AutoCAD.
I always love speaking to a Californian (as opposed to someone in India) almost immediately, whenever I call Adobe. They're so calm, knowledgable and friendly, I just want to buy more Adobe software. :chuckle:

:mock: Autodesk helpdesk employees in Germany
 

Mr. Beeks

New member
I always love speaking to a Californian (as opposed to someone in India) almost immediately, whenever I call Adobe. They're so calm, knowledgable and friendly, I just want to buy more Adobe software. :chuckle:

:mock: Autodesk helpdesk employees in Germany
Never need any help with Autodesk... it's practically perfect. ;)
 

Aimiel

Well-known member
I have used them, with some installation issues. I work with Swiss German speaking colleagues here in Cincinnati; but the helpdesk at Autodesk is VERY hard to understand. High German accent is almost impossible to overcome. :chuckle:
 

Yorzhik

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LIFETIME MEMBER
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Hello Yorzhik!

Yorzhik, what do you think about selling the copyrighted software you've downloaded for free from a file-sharing site?

How about movies? How about music?

How about books you scan and sell PDFs of? If you were asked by the copyright owners if you were selling copies of their materials, would you say yes?

Thanks,

-Bob Enyart
KGOV.com
With today's current laws, I don't violate copyright laws. This is similar to me not violating court "rules" wherein if I were to go to court, I'd have my lawyer do the talking even though it is wrong to have lawyers in the justice system.

When you buy a CD, who owns it?
 

Yorzhik

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Hall of Fame
I've written this before, but in any discussion of copyright it proceeds fairly quickly to what contracts are.

Just because a copyright is presented, doesn't mean that is has to be agreed to. To illustrate this I use an example: I'm very familiar with a manufacturer that sent a contract to a distributor. The distributor disagreed with some parts of the contract and sent it back with these reasons. The manufacturer sent the contract to their legal department for revision. Meanwhile, the manufacturer's rep began to supply pricing to the distributor (figuring the contract would be taken care of) and the distributor started ordering. The legal department stalled, and revised the contract and sent it back to the distributor, who sent it back again with many of the same concerns, unsigned. The manufacturer's legal department stalled some more (they wanted the right to change prices retroactively if the distributor didn't sell enough). The legal department didn't respond again until over a month later. Meanwhile, the distributer had dropped 2 purchase orders that were fulfilled (on 30 day credit terms, no less). When the contract came again over a month later - it was ignored (it had the same part about retroactive pricing). Now, over a year later and many thousands of dollars of business, the contract sits unsigned. There actually is a contract, which is a "handshake" contract of common honesty with the rep, and the purchase order is the contract with the manufacturer. Everything is being done in an entirely just manner. Can the manufacturer come back and retroactively raise prices on the distributor if the distributor doesn't sell as much product as the manufacturer wanted them to sell?

Sorry for the long story, I really only mentioned the relevant details. The distributor was well aware of the manufacturer's contract, but they didn't agree with it (and honestly told the manufacturer about it). Just because one knows about a contract does not mean they agree with it. Just because I know what the copyright is does not mean I agree with it. If I don't agree with the contract, it is not unGodly. If the contractor will not do business with the contractee because they don't agree with their contract, so be it. If they do business with the contractee despite the disagreement - it is rightly the contractor's problem if the contractee doesn't honor it - the contractee is free of guilt. It isn't that there is no contract - it only means the two parties have decided to do business with contractee's terms using a "handshake" contract (or purchase order generated by the contractee again showing it is mutually agreed to according to the contractee's terms).

If you prefer to sell something on a "handshake" contract with strangers over which you have no accountability, then don't be surprised if the contract is not agreed to often. If your handshake contract relies on an intermediary party enforcing the "handshake" contract without compensation, then don't be surprised if the contract isn't honored - especially if the intermediary will not receive punishment for breaking the contract.

If a contractee decides he/she needs it in writing - the contractor should stand behind their demands and supply a one-to-one written contract. If the contractee then agrees with the contract, they can sign it.

If you want to make a blanket contract with every stranger that might do business with you - you are making a weak contract. It will quickly be tightened up if it is ever enforced.

Consider this (what is told next is assumed to be under a good government): a publisher finds their work being openly published by another man. He claims he received the work under no false pretenses without a contract restricting his right to distribute the work as he sees fit. He claims he told the clerk clearly, where he bought the work, that he didn't agree with the contract to restrict distribution and the clerk sold him the work anyway. He even claims he even went farther and asked the clerk to get the manager so he could ask the manager to get permission from the publisher to free him from the contract to restrict distribution. He says the clerk looked at him funny and rang up the sale. The police ask him where he got it and who the clerk was. The man points him out. The clerk says he doesn't know anything about it. They check the records and THAT clerk was logged into the register that made the sale. The clerk then says the transaction may have happened but he doesn't remember - hundreds of people get rung up and say all kinds of crazy things - his job is to get the money and bag the work - not to discuss every odd thing a customer might say.

You're the judge - who is responsible?
 

fool

Well-known member
Hall of Fame
Consider this (what is told next is assumed to be under a good government): a publisher finds their work being openly published by another man. He claims he received the work under no false pretenses without a contract restricting his right to distribute the work as he sees fit. He claims he told the clerk clearly, where he bought the work, that he didn't agree with the contract to restrict distribution and the clerk sold him the work anyway. He even claims he even went farther and asked the clerk to get the manager so he could ask the manager to get permission from the publisher to free him from the contract to restrict distribution. He says the clerk looked at him funny and rang up the sale. The police ask him where he got it and who the clerk was. The man points him out. The clerk says he doesn't know anything about it. They check the records and THAT clerk was logged into the register that made the sale. The clerk then says the transaction may have happened but he doesn't remember - hundreds of people get rung up and say all kinds of crazy things - his job is to get the money and bag the work - not to discuss every odd thing a customer might say.

You're the judge - who is responsible?

Book em Dano.
The clerk dosen't have the right to modify the copyright, it's stamped on the book.
If you don't like it then get rid of all your books.
 
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