We have not been saved by Jesus' death, rather we are saved by his life.
Why would God need a hell?
- Thread starter Mickiel
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We have not been saved by Jesus' death, rather we are saved by his life.
Provided they choose salvation.
Mickiel
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Well when you say " We", I understand you are speaking for somebody, but not me. I know the concept is biblical and cancels out the Christian hell and their effort to reduce the population in heaven. In Heb. 2:9 Jesus tasted death for EVERY human, that is the backbone of universal salvation; Jesus is standing for every single human, including those Christianity is excluding. All a sinner needed was the death of Christ, that death was a seal that cannot be broken by religious dogma.
In 1 Tim. 2:6 Jesus gave himself a ransom for all, that ransom cannot be subtracted from any human; and that is good news for this world.
Reconciliation is not salvation. Jesus died to reconcile everyone to the Father by his blood. But we are not saved by his death.
Salvation will not be forced on anyone. That would defeat God's purpose of creating us as mortals. It has been appointed that we all must die once. We only die a second time by our choice.
Mickiel
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As I fight the Christian message of exclusion, its like being surrounded by believers who have no faith in God's power and have been seduced by a spirit of failure. The greatest thing God could do for humanity, is save them all; astoundingly he has done that, but lacks support from many of his followers. They cannot accept the salvation of all. In 1 Tim. 1:15" This is a FAITHFUL saying, and WORTHY of all acceptance, that Christ came into the world to SAVE sinners." The bible says ALL have sinned; Jesus came to save sinners, its then academic, he came to save ALL. And this is worthy of acceptance; Christianity has just been conditioned not to accept it.
Clearly Jesus' death was not beneficial to everyone. Because only a few are chosen for God's kingdom of heaven.
"STOP" corrupting scriptures simply to be sweet and nice. You are misleading many unsuspecting aspiring Christians.
It is clearly confirmed in the KJV N.T. that there are some who has benefited nothing from the Lord Jesus.
Galatians: 5 KJV N.T.
1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.
2 Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.
3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.
4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
The billion strong traditional Christians esteem the law in some form or fashion. Even though 'the Lord died on the cross'. They (i.e. these billion people) are debtors to do the whole law and the Lord Jesus has benefited them nothing.
You cannot deny that the billion strong traditional Christians do esteem and use the law of sin and death, in some form or fashion. They (i.e. these billion people) are debtors to do the whole law and the Lord Jesus has benefited them nothing. This a big err on the part of these traditional Christians. This is their serious stumbling block. This is one of the reason why many are called and few chosen.
Romans: 8 KJV N.T.
1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
No one in the billion strong traditional Christianity seem to know how to walk in "the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus" which makes them free from the law of sin and death.
Seems that you all are the ones wondering why there is hell. If you are under the law of sin and death, then going to hell is inevitable. The Lord Jesus has benefited you nothing. The Lord did not die for you guys. You guys remained under the Old system. You reject the New system.
You guys seem destine to walk right up to your judgment day, with absolute foolishness. And even ask God, why is there a hell. You do not have to wait for that answer. A hell is necessary. Hell is there to sent disobedient people, like . . . .
James: 2 KJV N.T.
10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
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You are :duh:
For many are called, but few are chosen [Matt. 22:13–14].
"Whether or not you accept the wedding garment is up to you, but Christ has provided it for you. The invitation has gone out to everyone, but you will have to come on the King’s terms..." McGee, J. V. (1991). Thru the Bible commentary: The Gospels (Matthew 14-28) (electronic ed., Vol. 35, p. 107). Nashville: Thomas Nelson.
Mickiel
New member
I believe that God is sweet and nice , and his true gospel will reflect that message. The true real nature of God is listed in Gal. 5:22-23, this is how God really is , and everything he does is based on these characteristics; " But the fruit of the spirit is Love, Joy, Peace, Longsuffering, Gentleness, Goodness, Faith, Meekness and Temperance", these are the ways and means of God; they fuel all his actions and plans.
God really is gentle and meek; he is good and very peaceful, and all he does is based on these ways and means. Eternal hell suffering is NOT based on these holy ways of being, and a gospel that limits salvation surely is not.
You hold the right to spread such a limited gospel, I then hold a right to spread the salvation of all.
yes
a few are chosen to lead us
very few
the rest of us have to choose who to follow
you better make the right choices
please don't use this passage
if
you don't understand it
Jesus gives eternal life to sinners based on the foundation of Christ's doctrines which is repentance and faith toward God.
If you choose to believe that you are saved without Christ that's your choice, but salvation is open to all through him. Otherwise you will die a second time.
Mickiel
New member
Notice then more righteous hope in Eph. 2:5, " Even when we were DEAD in sins, Christ quickened us; for we are saved by GRACE!" Unbelievers are dead in sin, Atheist are dead in their tracks; but oh look at scripture, being dead in sin cannot stop the Grace of God! Humanity does not deserve such a thing as this Great Grace, but we have it through Christ. And Christianity cannot take it away.
Mickiel
New member
As you offer your view of scripture, I offer mine; as you offer the message you see in the bible, I offer mine; 2 Pet. 3:9, " The Lord is NOT slack concerning his PROMISE, as some men count slackness ( the doctrine of limited salvation is counting slackness), but is LONGsuffering to us, not willing that ANY should perish but that ALL come to repentance." God has not willed any human to perish, and never will!
God is not slack concerning HIS PROMISE! What is his promise? Isaiah 45:23, that to him EVERY knee will bow and EVERY mouth shall confess to him. What great hope for all.
Mickiel,
You demonstrate a certain amount of sagacity. I love a person who questions!!!
You are absolutely correct about hell. This concept was started by religious leaders who were trying to scare their listeners into joining their particular religion. The tern hell, as written in the KJV of the Bible is a corruption of the Greek word, hades. Hades is the same place as the term Sheol, in the Hebrew Scriptures, and means the place of the dead. It did not have any thought of a place of torment or punishment, only rest, a deep sleep. Notice the comparison of the words used at Psalms 16:10, and Acts 2:27, 31. In the Hebrew the term Sheol was used in most Bibles, and at Acts 2:27,31 the term used is Hades. If you have access to an concordance, you will see exactly which words were used, in the Original Autographs.
To show that here was no thought of pain in Sheol, Job, when he was in terrible misery from his boils, asked God to let him go into Sheol until His anger was past, then to remember and call him back to life, Job 14:13-15.
There is a difference between Hades, the grave, and the term Gehenna, which Jesus used to show another place people will go, If they do not obey God, Matt 5:22, 18:8,9, 23:33, Mark 9:43-48. Notice that in Chapters Matt 18 and Mark 9, Jesus spoke about being thrown into the fire that cannot be put out. So, this shows that The Lake of Fire and Sulfur and Gehenna is the same place, Revelation 20:14,15.
The important difference between Gehenna and The Lake of Fire is, you can be resurrected back to life from Hades, Sheol,the common grave of mankind, but there is NO resurrection from the Lake of Fire.
God is going to resurrect billions of persons back to life, John 5:28,29, Acts 24:15, but if they do not want to obey, and live peacefully with others, then they will go into The Lake of Fire. There is NO punishment or torment of any kind in The Lake of Fire. The person, or anything else thrown into the Lake of Fire will be OUT of existence, forever!!!
This is also the place that is spoken about at 2Thessalonians 1:6-10, and Matthew 25:46.
The reason for anyone being thrown into the Lake of Fire, will be their refusal to make any progress when living in the Judgement Day. People will only be judged by what they do after being resurrected, because the will have already paid the ultimate price, death for their sins, Romans 6:23, 6:7.
You demonstrate a certain amount of sagacity. I love a person who questions!!!
You are absolutely correct about hell. This concept was started by religious leaders who were trying to scare their listeners into joining their particular religion. The tern hell, as written in the KJV of the Bible is a corruption of the Greek word, hades. Hades is the same place as the term Sheol, in the Hebrew Scriptures, and means the place of the dead. It did not have any thought of a place of torment or punishment, only rest, a deep sleep. Notice the comparison of the words used at Psalms 16:10, and Acts 2:27, 31. In the Hebrew the term Sheol was used in most Bibles, and at Acts 2:27,31 the term used is Hades. If you have access to an concordance, you will see exactly which words were used, in the Original Autographs.
To show that here was no thought of pain in Sheol, Job, when he was in terrible misery from his boils, asked God to let him go into Sheol until His anger was past, then to remember and call him back to life, Job 14:13-15.
There is a difference between Hades, the grave, and the term Gehenna, which Jesus used to show another place people will go, If they do not obey God, Matt 5:22, 18:8,9, 23:33, Mark 9:43-48. Notice that in Chapters Matt 18 and Mark 9, Jesus spoke about being thrown into the fire that cannot be put out. So, this shows that The Lake of Fire and Sulfur and Gehenna is the same place, Revelation 20:14,15.
The important difference between Gehenna and The Lake of Fire is, you can be resurrected back to life from Hades, Sheol,the common grave of mankind, but there is NO resurrection from the Lake of Fire.
God is going to resurrect billions of persons back to life, John 5:28,29, Acts 24:15, but if they do not want to obey, and live peacefully with others, then they will go into The Lake of Fire. There is NO punishment or torment of any kind in The Lake of Fire. The person, or anything else thrown into the Lake of Fire will be OUT of existence, forever!!!
This is also the place that is spoken about at 2Thessalonians 1:6-10, and Matthew 25:46.
The reason for anyone being thrown into the Lake of Fire, will be their refusal to make any progress when living in the Judgement Day. People will only be judged by what they do after being resurrected, because the will have already paid the ultimate price, death for their sins, Romans 6:23, 6:7.
Mickiel
New member
Mickiel
New member
As with most subjects in scripture, Christianity's view of the lake of fire is very negative and damning. The lake has several functions in my view; to punish for a very short amount of time, then to purify and release the human in far better shape than before they were put in. I think the lake is part of the new birth process, and thus VERY good in its nature and purpose.
But that's another thread.
But that's another thread.
Lon
Well-known member
Read your bible instead of Google fishing :dizzy: Googling nor imaginings are sagacious. Opposite, in fact. Both of you stop this nonsense and read your bible!
Who cares what you think? Are you God? Am I? No? Doesn't matter what 'we' think then, does it? Are you editing God, or reading God? (Editing, try reading instead).
All the new-age wacko's have flocked to this thread with grandiose opinion and self-inflation. I will repeat, read your bibles. It only matters what God thinks and what is. The rest (much "I" "me" "you" opinion of this thread) are meaningless platitudes by kindergarteners.
Mickiel
New member
If you think its nonsense, why are you reading it?
Again, the hope for all, Isaiah 40:5, " The glory of the Lord shall be revealed and ALL Flesh shall see it; the mouth of the Lord has spoken it." Praise God, this is the pre destiny of all humans, to actually see God in his glory. Now no flesh can see God and live, so this means God is going to transform ALL humans so we can see him. This is again good news for unbelievers.
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